Explosions rock Boston Marathon; several injured

[Cowboysrock55]

So are the social injustice fools that can't put themselves in the situation of fear and subjugation of terrorism that the people of Boston endured.

I would gladly be pulled out of my home if I thought the cops were trying to find a terrorist that had been bombing my city and killing people. A minor inconvenience to catch the terrorist. It's very close to the argument about why TSA needs to screen people before they get on a plane. A minor inconvenience to accommodate my safety.

And when they knocked on your door you could have gladly came out and told them to please search your home.

 

[Smitty]

Substituting the word terrorist for drug dealer is not acceptable since the two are completely different and should be handled differently.

This terrorist killed 3? 4? people.

At the end of the day he ended no more lives than many violent criminals who are all apprehended with the protections of the 4th amendment firmly in place.

You'll have to do a better job of explaining the difference, because right now I feel like its your own fear rather than actual safety statistics.

 

[Cotton]

The first terrorist was not caught from kicking people's doors in. Police responded to the murder of a MIT cop and subsequent carjacking, then encountered the vehicle out in the open.



No, my point is that overaggressive cops cause death amongst Americans at a higher rate than deliberate terrorism, since after 9/11 that is unquestionable (Even if you factor in 3000 deaths in 9/11 I'm not sure that police haven't caused more ACCIDENTAL deaths than that, but I'm not sure, so I won't claim that).

Which leads to the conclusion that it's more dangerous for American citizens to have cops being overaggressive about apprehending suspects than it is to have a terrorist on the loose (especially when the terrorist already committed his crime -- it's highly unlikely he's going to strike again while the cops are hot on his trail). Therefore there's no real danger in having the cops be patient.

God damn, Smitty, really? You say you can't claim it to be fact, but then base a statement on said "non-fact".

 

[Cotton]

And when they knocked on your door you could have gladly came out and told them to please search your home.

You god damn right. If I was in a situation where I thought there was a terrorist roaming my neighborhood and they were looking for them. Hell yeah, get past my house so you can move on to the next and find that motherfucker.

 

[Cotton]

This terrorist killed 3? 4? people.

At the end of the day he ended no more lives than many violent criminals who are all apprehended with the protections of the 4th amendment firmly in place.

You'll have to do a better job of explaining the difference, because right now I feel like its your own fear rather than actual safety statistics.

He injured 200. Many were in critical condition for a long time. Does that number change the argument?

No?

Yeah, mine either.

 

[Cotton]

My point is, the definition of terrorism and how that is dealt with should be redefined. Shape the 4th amendment to fit today's unfortunate world.

 

[EZ22]

It's very close to the argument about why TSA needs to screen people before they get on a plane. A minor inconvenience to accommodate my safety.

It's not even close to the same thing. I'm too tired to explain it to you though. Good night, slave!

 

[Cotton]

It's not even close to the same thing. I'm too tired to explain it to you though. Good night, slave!

Slave?

o rly

 

[Smitty]

God damn, Smitty, really? You say you can't claim it to be fact, but then base a statement on said "non-fact".

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

There have been what, 3 or 4 terrorism related deaths since 9/11 in this country? In over 10 years. It is unarguable that police over-aggression has caused more deaths than that during that time period (September 12, 2001 - present). So that is my position.

I suspect, but I am not sure, that police over-aggression may have even caused more than 3,000 deaths, if we wanted to back up that time period one more day to include 9/11. But that is the stat that I don't know about for sure. I just wouldn't be shocked if it was over 3,000. I hear about a handful of them in my state alone every year, and that's just the ones I hear about. Times 50 states, times 10 years, I'm just saying I wouldn't be shocked if it was at or near 3,000. So I am not claiming that as a stat, just pondering that one.

But my point about police killing more people than terrorists since 9/11 stands.

 

[VA Cowboy]

W is one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen. I am not an Obama guy and I'm not trying to imply that Obama is any better, but please, let's stop acting like W was some kind of Christ touched version of Reagan.

Hyperbole.

He was definitely no where near Reagan territory but far from the worst. Just in the last 40 years Carter and Obama would top that list.

 

[Smitty]

You god damn right. If I was in a situation where I thought there was a terrorist roaming my neighborhood and they were looking for them. Hell yeah, get past my house so you can move on to the next and find that motherfucker.

No one is saying you can't do that. But someone might not want to let the cops into their house and they should be able to say no.

 

[Cotton]

So, you're saying that there is about 1 accidental death by cop every day.

That's about how it averages out.

 

[Clay_Allison]

What if your neighbor in Boston got his home invaded by a terrorist, and said terrorist had a bomb on him. The police had damn good intel he was in the neighborhood. Would you be cool with the cops backing off and waiting on a judge to issue a search warrant before the cops raided? Or would you like the cops to take prudent measures to make sure your neighbors house hadn't been compromised and make sure your house remains safe?

Did anyone get injured by these cops raiding? Did anyone get gunned down that shouldn't have? Or are you just being overly sensitive in a time that the cops can't exactly act inside normal protocol if the mission is apprehending and ending the threat as fast as they possibly can?

They don't have the right to kick in my door and point guns at me, they can go door to door and question people. Making people come out at gunpoint is a violation of their rights unless they have probable cause to believe the terrorists are in that house. Today they only do it for terrorists, tomorrow it will be some other kind of criminal, then they'll just do it whenever they think you look suspicious.

 

[Smitty]

Just in the last 40 years Carter and Obama would top that list.

Take away Obamacare and that isn't a true statement, as unfortunate as it is. Minus that, I would argue that Bush was worse than Obama.

 

[VA Cowboy]

What would you have the cops do? Wait for the lunatics to turn up at Costco? Proactive is the absolute only way to hunt them. I applaud the balls it took to completely shut down public transportation in Boston while they hunted. They had to have taken a lot of shit.

I would have them follow the law and not barge into any house at their every whim. And as it turned it, it wasn't these forcible searches that resulted in finding the bomber, it was a homeowner noticing something strange, checking it out and then calling 911.

 

[Cotton]

They don't have the right to kick in my door and point guns at me, they can go door to door and question people. Making people come out at gunpoint is a violation of their rights unless they have probable cause to believe the terrorists are in that house. Today they only do it for terrorists, tomorrow it will be some other kind of criminal, then they'll just do it whenever they think you look suspicious.

If you had a terrorist in your basement, you figure a question at the door would gain them knowledge of it?

It's a sad fucking day in this country, I agree. But, infighting against the cops that are trying to harness the fucksticks that started the slapfight because you got your feelings hurt is stupid.

 

[Smitty]

So, you're saying that there is about 1 accidental death by cop every day.

That's about how it averages out.

Wouldn't be shocked at all, but I don't know.

What I do know is that there have been more accidentally killed by cops than the 3 or 4 we've had killed via terrorism since September 2001.

And there are much more injured by cops than the 200 that were injured in this bombing as well.

So it seems to be the bigger public safety concern should be limiting the amount of damage the cops do, since they have caused more in the last 10 years than terrorists have.

The craze to give up your rights for what is essentially a multiple-homicide criminal is completely a product of media sensationalism, the same kind of hype that wants us to turn over our guns every time there is a school shooting.

 

[Smitty]

I would have them follow the law and not barge into any house at their every whim. And as it turned it, it wasn't these forcible searches that resulted in finding the bomber, it was a homeowner noticing something strange, checking it out and then calling 911.

I beat you to that one.

 

[NoDak]

Take away Obamacare and that isn't a true statement, as unfortunate as it is. Minus that, I would argue that Bush was worse than Obama.

What is the point in saying all that? You can't take it away. Take away what made Bush suck and he wouldn't suck.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Granted, under the circumstances most people would allow the police to search their property. But if someone refused, then it should be their right and the police shouldn't force their way in without a warrant.