Sullivan: Garrett’s 3-Year Plan Among Random Thoughts

[Smitty]

If you can point out where I have said GARRETT SUCKS, I'll admit you are right.

Of course you didn't say it in an exact quote, it's part of your, and others, long history of an attempt to discredit him as often as possible.

In fact, I've done quite the opposite in this thread. I've said I do give him credit, and would give him more if we were to go on to playoff success.

And I have many times admitted to his flaws. Over and over again in fact.

Doesn't seem to matter to you, though, so why should your half-hearted attempts to give him backhanded credit matter to me?

If not, it's just another of your longwinded, filled with bullshit say nothing posts.

Par for the course.

Well welcome to the club. This whole fucking debate is retarded and meaningless.

I agree with you that Wade is -- IN GENERAL -- a superior tactician. There are valid and deserved exceptions and disclaimers to that statement though. I'm sorry those facts make you take exception, but that's the truth. Saying Wade is without reservations better as a coordinator, unfortunately, is not.

Seems to me your dumbass point is that I won't simply throw him under the bus like a mouth breathing retard by blathering about how Wade is so much better a coordinator. Yeah, you're right... I won't, because it's not entirely true.

Now if you were to say that Dick LeBeau is clearly a superior coordinator... now you're onto something.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Well as long as it hovers around 2007 levels then it will be exactly as I said... so... keep holding your breath.

That's not happening unless Sparano comes back as the OC. You conveniently forget how the running dropped off as soon as Sparano left town.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I won't give a shit if they actually get over the hump and become a legit contender in the NFC for a few years. If that happens I'll be ready to admit that I was wrong about Garrett (and Jerry for having so much faith in him). I'm just curious who else will be ready to admit that and who is so jaded that they'll go out of their way to give everyone but those guys the credit.

If they win the Super Bowl, or even go to one, I'll be all over giving Garrett and Jerry credit. I need more than a 2007-ish run to a hasty playoff exit to get that out of me though.

 

[data]

Is demarco murray a better RB than randle?

If the question is "was every single one of murray's performances on a carry better than every single one of randle's Garrett's performances on a carry" I don't think I could say unquivocably yes. Randle did have the longest rush of the game versus seattle.

 

[Smitty]

Is demarco murray a better RB than randle?

If the question is "was every single one of murray's performances on a carry better than every single one of randle's Garrett's performances on a carry" I don't think I could say unquivocably yes. Randle did have the longest rush of the game versus seattle.

in general, demarco murray is a better rb than randle. however, randle did have the longest rush in the seattle game, so i can't equivicably say it's not on a carry-per-carry level.

This would mean something if Murray fumbled the ball every 3-4 carries. Then we'd have an accurate comparison.

 

[Smitty]

That's not happening unless Sparano comes back as the OC. You conveniently forget how the running dropped off as soon as Sparano left town.

You conveniently forget that it did not immediately drop off to 2013 levels. With Sparano here we ran it 419 times in 2007, then 401 in 2008.

Hardly 2013 levels.

Id say "as soon as Sparano left" is painting the picture of a dramatic shift that did not actually occur immediately, but rather digressed as personnel deteriorated.

 

[boozeman]

You conveniently forget that it did not immediately drop off to 2013 levels. With Sparano here we ran it 419 times in 2007, then 401 in 2008.

Hardly 2013 levels.

Id say "as soon as Sparano left" is painting the picture of a dramatic shift that did not actually occur immediately, but rather digressed as personnel deteriorated.

The philosophy of the run game and the kind of plays called also changed.

Less power, more of the draws and trickery. That was Garrett.

 

[data]

This would mean something if Murray fumbled the ball every 3-4 carries. Then we'd have an accurate comparison.

Wrong. I'd say 5-6 carries.

 

[Angrymesscan]

So would you rather have the best DC and RHG or the best OC and SOB as your coordinators?

 

[Clay_Allison]

So would you rather have the best DC and RHG or the best OC and SOB as your coordinators?

I'd take SOB as a coordinator any day. As long as you run the ball effectively, his vanilla-aggressive 3-4 will get good results. His defense will fall apart when you can't control the clock, though. It wasn't a coincidence that his defense collapsing in H-town happened along with a bad year by Arian Foster.

 

[ravidubey]

It wasn't a coincidence that his defense collapsing in H-town happened along with a bad year by Arian Foster.

Yep. His D's were based on creating favorable one-on-one matchups rather than power. Ratliff as a NT was fucking smoke and mirrors. You pay for that scheming when Steven Jackson stamps his cleats up and down every one of your linemen's asses.

 

[dallen]

So would you rather have the best DC and RHG or the best OC and SOB as your coordinators?

SOB is a very good DC. I'd take him over Garrett as a coordinator any day

 

[Angrymesscan]

I'd take SOB as a coordinator any day. As long as you run the ball effectively, his vanilla-aggressive 3-4 will get good results. His defense will fall apart when you can't control the clock, though. It wasn't a coincidence that his defense collapsing in H-town happened along with a bad year by Arian Foster.

SOB is a very good DC. I'd take him over Garrett as a coordinator any day

Yep. His D's were based on creating favorable one-on-one matchups rather than power. Ratliff as a NT was fucking smoke and mirrors. You pay for that scheming when Steven Jackson stamps his cleats up and down every one of your linemen's asses.

So that would be 2 and a half (I guess) votes for SOB, what say you [MENTION=24]mschmidt64[/MENTION]?

 

[Smitty]

So that would be 2 and a half (I guess) votes for SOB, what say you [MENTION=24]mschmidt64[/MENTION]?

You already know what I say. Wade is one of the worst coaches in the game because of his personality and penchant for collapses. That means no matter how good he is at Xs and Os I'll never want him on my team for any reason.

No matter what I think of Garrett he is somewhere above "automatically ruled out."

 

[Cowboysrock55]

SOB is a very good DC. I'd take him over Garrett as a coordinator any day

I hate to put my name into this discussion but I don't think SOB is a good defensive coordinator. I think he is way too predictable as a defensive coordinator. And his defenses almost always collapse horribly his second year coaching them. I don't like him as an X and O's guy. I think he is a dumb simplistic man that loves to blitz heavy. This leads to some good sack numbers and some really easy reads for a QB to make to complete passes. Reminds me of when you're a kid playing Madden and you just go to goal line and send the house on every play.

 

[ravidubey]

I hate to put my name into this discussion but I don't think SOB is a good defensive coordinator. I think he is way too predictable as a defensive coordinator. And his defenses almost always collapse horribly his second year coaching them. I don't like him as an X and O's guy. I think he is a dumb simplistic man that loves to blitz heavy. This leads to some good sack numbers and some really easy reads for a QB to make to complete passes. Reminds me of when you're a kid playing Madden and you just go to goal line and send the house on every play.

I agree and think history shows he is more Mr. Band-Aid as opposed to Mr. Fix-It.

Play design is only a part of a DC's job. He needs to coach players; recruit, teach and inspire assistants; call plays; and adapt and adjust to changes during and in between games and seasons.

Not easy to do, or keep doing.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I agree and think history shows he is more Mr. Band-Aid as opposed to Mr. Fix-It.

Play design is only a part of a DC's job. He needs to coach players; recruit, teach and inspire assistants; call plays; and adapt and adjust to changes during and in between games and seasons.

Not easy to do, or keep doing.

He's not one of the greats, but I think his defense works if you draft well for it and control the clock on offense. He's not a Dick Lebeau or even a Dom Capers, but I think he's as good as, say, Jim Hazlett.