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By Jon Machota and Bob Sturm 1h ago
Since reporters were allowed to attend rookie minicamp practices last week and will be soon attending organized team activities, it seems like a good time to have a Cowboys conversation.
The Athletic’s Jon Machota and Bob Sturm chatted for about 20 minutes Thursday about several Cowboys-related topics from rookie standouts to most interesting position group battles to expectations for Dak Prescott as he works his way back from his significant ankle injury. Here is a transcript of their conversation.
Machota: I figured we’d start this off by talking about this year’s rookie class. Out of their 11 draft picks, which five do you think will make the biggest impact? I’ll start off rolling through my top five. Obviously my No. 1 is Micah Parsons. No. 2 is Kelvin Joseph. And this just isn’t because they were Dallas’ first two picks, but they are at positions where I think they can make a major impact starting Week 1. After that is where it gets a little bit more interesting, but I’m going to go with Osa Odighizuwa. It just seems like this is a guy that they drafted in the third round to probably get him on the field pretty soon. I don’t know exactly what they have yet in Neville Gallimore and Trysten Hill. They’ve been solid when given opportunities but it’s a small sample size. I don’t think either one of them makes you think, “OK, they got three-technique all figured out.” So, I think Odighizuwa could get in that mix there with those guys. Fourth, I have Jabril Cox. I know it’s kind of crowded in that linebacker room right now, but I think it’s going to be tough to keep him off the field. I mean, certainly on special teams, but also on third downs I think they’re going to find a way to get him out there for what he can do in pass coverage. And then the last guy is sixth-round pick Quinton Bohanna. I don’t think there’s another defensive tackle on this roster who’s going to do what he does, so I think he’s going to get in the mix on first and second downs against the run. Do you agree with that group?
Sturm: I do agree with that, almost precisely. I might put Cox in front of Odighizuwa, but not by much. Otherwise, our lists are very similar. And what I should first point out is I’m about to dive into the Iowa kid, Chauncey Golston, a little more in-depth, so I’m not as prepared on his resume, but those five you mentioned all look like real key parts of this defensive rebuild. And I’m pretty excited about it. The place I would love to visit with you is kind of that Odighizuwa profile, and that group of six. I might be missing somebody, but when I go down the roster, Brent Urban and Carlos Watkins are the free-agent signings. Then you have Hill and Gallimore as carryovers from previous drafts. And then Bohanna and Odighizuwa, and these are all profiled as defensive tackle guys. I’m very curious how it fits. I’m very curious who will be playing primarily the majority of early downs versus nickel. In nickel, we’ve seen a number of times that they want to move ends inside anyway and so maybe none of them play.
But there are a couple things that jump out to me. One, Odighizuwa, from what I can tell, is a guy who they think can really two-gap for them, maybe even right in that A-gap, right over the center. I don’t know if I would call him a nose because that is a tiny, tiny nose, but I do think there are ways to do that. Brent Urban is another candidate for that. I’m not as familiar with Carlos Watkins, but just how they, in general, fit together. I think the primary focus, through and through and I touched on this in my piece on Odighizuwa, is they really are emphasizing allowing the linebackers to be able to stay clean, and hopefully run and head to the ball. You don’t draft Micah Parsons, unless you have a way to allow him to do his job. I think even without Parsons, they thought they could really do a lot with Jaylon Smith in that same regard. I don’t know how much the tune has changed. With Trysten Hill, it’s a small profile, it’s a small sample of, “Maybe this kid has turned the corner.” But I’m very interested to see where Trysten Hill is for 2021. It’s obviously a huge year for him. Between the glimpses from about Week 2 to Week 5 last year with Hill, and then that glimpse that Neville Gallimore gave us a couple times last year, in particular that Pittsburgh game where he was just insane, I think they’ve done a pretty good job of putting together, and yet not really breaking the bank to do so. You know, if you go get Ndamukong Suh, well now you better have fixed it. I kind of think they might have had a sneaky offseason and got a lot of capable players who are probably just grunts in the end, right now. But maybe this collection will be way better than what they had in 2020, which probably doesn’t require that much.
Osa Odighizuwa (James D. Smith / Dallas Cowboys)
Machota: Yeah, I agree. It’s just with those guys in the middle, I kind of want to see it to believe it, because there was just so much talk over the years when Rod Marinelli was defensive coordinator about how important the three-technique defensive tackle was going to be in their scheme. And then you’re constantly wondering, if this is the most important spot in this scheme, why haven’t they gotten better players there? You have to go back to Jason Hatcher in 2013 to get a player who really produced double-digit sacks there. They’ve tried different guys there and the production hasn’t been great. So now they have Gallimore, Hill and Odighizuwa. Somebody has to emerge out of that group. Maybe two guys do. I guess I’m at a spot where I just want to see it to believe it.
And that takes me to the next thing as we enter OTAs and then minicamp and into training camp: Which position group is most intriguing to you? Is it linebacker? Is it that defensive line? When I did my 53-man roster prediction this week, the defensive line group wasn’t easy to pick. Like you mentioned, they signed Urban and Watkins and Tarell Basham in free agency, but then they ended up drafting three defensive linemen. They’re not going to keep 12 defensive linemen. You know there will probably be an injury or two that sorts some of that out, but I think that’s a very interesting group to watch. But linebacker is No. 1 for me. I’m intrigued to see how they put these pieces together, if they’re all healthy. And that might be asking a lot, but you don’t go out and sign Keanu Neal not to play him. You don’t draft Micah Parsons at 12, and then not play him. Jaylon Smith led the team in tackles last year. They’re probably going to find ways to keep him on the field. And then you have Leighton Vander Esch and Cox. I mean, rookie minicamp they didn’t show us too much, but Cox certainly looked the part of the kind of linebacker you want to at the very least see in passing situations. Where do you sit on that?
Sturm: I couldn’t agree more — so much so that I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that they’re shopping somebody here before the run-up to training camp, and it might be a very large name linebacker. It just seems like the next step is probably to thin the herd a little bit once they’re comfortable with what they got. And that might not take long, that might be available in OTAs, to see that they just drafted, maybe their two best linebackers in April. I can’t believe we’re headed there already, but let’s come to grips with what we’re seeing here. And what we’re seeing here appears to be everything means everything. When you have a historically bad defensive season, and you hire a guy like Dan Quinn, and you say to him, “We will not stop anywhere to fix this defense. Nobody is off-limits.” Of course, DeMarcus Lawrence is probably off-limits. But nobody is really off-limits beyond him. So, if you have the ability to flip a player, and I don’t think the return would be overwhelming, but I do think you just don’t want to block talented players because you have bigger names on bigger deals. So, I would allow Quinn to take what appears to be very impressive depth, but also tons of questions on how that depth translates. You say, what’s the most interesting part? That’s so hard because each spot on the defense, with maybe the exception of safety, feels like they have six choices. And while we have to find which ones represent actual improvements from the last few defenses, I think at just about every spot, there’s reason to believe they’re going to be better. I think Trevon Diggs, and Kelvin Joseph, and even Reggie Robinson and Nahshon Wright, they represent turning the page at corner in a definite clear direction. Now, will it work? OK, we need to see that for sure, but I love Jabril Cox and what he adds to the linebacking group. I think Parsons could be excellent. I don’t know how it’s all going to fit, and that’s up to them, but I’m fired up about Keanu Neal and Damontae Kazee. I’m really not answering the question directly because I feel like this is a blank canvas, but there’s a lot of interesting paints to choose from here for this canvas. And I kind of think they have a chance. Now, it’s very possible I’m being sucked in again by hope springing eternal in the offseason. But for now, I just think training camp is going to be very intriguing. And the other thing there is how many training camps in a row has it been the same old, same old? This should not be anything like that.
Machota: I agree with that. There’s a lot of positive energy surrounding Quinn. Everything I’ve seen so far and from what he has said, it sounds like exactly what you’re hoping for from a new defensive coordinator. So there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about that. One other thing that Cowboys fans should be optimistic about is that from everything we’ve seen and heard up to this point is that Dak Prescott is at the very least on schedule and maybe even ahead of schedule in his rehab. And then you see the Joe Burrow news this week that he’s expecting to be back by the start of the season, it just shows you the advancements in medical technology for these players to be able to overcome such significant injuries much quicker than in the past. From what I’ve been hearing and seeing, it sounds like Dak’s going to do mostly individual stuff during OTAs and minicamp, maybe work into some seven-on-seven, but they don’t want to put him in any position to have a player accidentally roll into his ankle or anything like that. I don’t anticipate him being a full-go until the start of training camp, but that still should be exciting for the team and fans. I’m wondering how you feel about what the expectations should be for him. He’s the favorite to win NFL Comeback Player of the Year, from everything we’ve heard it seems like he’s doing very well in his rehab, the way he was playing last year before he got hurt, I don’t think there’s going to be any drop off because of this injury. The guy I’ve seen for the last five-plus years, it just seems like if anyone would be able to bounce back from that injury, it’s him. Do you see any reason to be cautious with expectations for him this season?
Garrett Gilbert )Tim Heitman / USA Today)
Sturm: Not really. I think he’s going to have a tremendous year. I think you can almost feel that he’s graduated. He finally has this degree in NFL quarterback play. We are now at the exciting part of his career where things are slowing down, and things are making sense to him, and those pre-snap reads and that film study and just the years with Kellen Moore and the years in the system, it’s almost like the foreign language process where it now clicks and you’re fully fluent. And I think that’s exciting. By the way, in a weird way, there might have been some benefit to sitting out for a couple months and just seeing the world from 30,000 feet. It’s a spot in his career where he should be entering his prime, the contract is done, the weapons are there. I’m very, very optimistic about the year he’ll have. I do think he’ll win comeback player of the year, but I also think that his sights should be even higher than that and get into the MVP mix or at least, whatever the NFC version of the MVP might be. Whatever Patrick Mahomes leaves for everybody else. But my biggest question for you on this matter is what are we doing about the backup quarterback? I’ve seen a lot of, “Well, maybe this guy and maybe that guy.” Are you sold on anything? And why isn’t the answer Garrett Gilbert?
Machota: I think they feel they can still do better than Gilbert. If they were completely confident in him as Dak’s backup, they wouldn’t be bringing in anybody else. I think they feel that they can do better. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean getting another Andy Dalton. The issue they’ve run into is that the market is drying up in terms of free-agent quarterbacks with experience. Not that it was a great market. Not that anyone was going to be blown away by Blake Bortles, Jeff Driskel or Brian Hoyer, but now you’re wondering if this is the group (Gilbert, Cooper Rush, Ben DiNucci) they take to training camp, do they shift their focus to potentially adding someone when teams start trimming their rosters in late August. When I put together my way-too-early 53, there were just so many other positions to address that I don’t see how they can go with more than two quarterbacks on that initial 53. So if I only have one backup, and the season starts today, then that’s Dak and Gilbert. But I think they’re going to continue kicking the tires on guys potentially all the way through training camp. If they can’t find anybody they like more than Gilbert, he’ll end up being Dak’s backup. The other part of this is that while I think Dak is going to bounce back and play well coming off the injury, I get the feeling they probably want somebody a little bit more accomplished than Gilbert behind him, considering what this team should be capable of accomplishing this season if it fairs much better in the health department.
Sturm: I feel like I must be missing something because Garrett Gilbert can absolutely do things with his arm that the other two candidates can’t dream of doing. We know that Cooper Rush has a below average NFL arm. At least I feel like that’s pretty clear. Ben DiNucci is nowhere near as bad as most fans think he is, but he’s also limited — let’s be honest. I think the Cowboys did him a massive disservice on that Sunday night in Philadelphia, partly because they were in a bind, but partly because they really didn’t give him a game plan that suggested they were serious about trying to win that game. But overall, I must be missing something on Gilbert, because he can clearly make throws that are NFL caliber. And they also clearly got him off the field as soon as they could. So those two things don’t fully mesh with me. I thought there were plenty of opportunities last year to basically allow him to win the 2021 backup job, and I don’t know if there were bad vibes in the classroom. I don’t know.
Machota: You got a chance to see plenty of Brett Hundley start nine games for the Packers in 2017. How do you feel about the Cowboys bringing him in to see what he can possibly contribute?
Sturm: I’m sure he’s made progress since that horrendous 2017 season, but I thought it was pretty evident that he is so uncomfortable in the pocket, and his eye level drops so badly, under pressure, that I would not be terribly optimistic about that. But some head coaches have placed such value on your ability to grade well in the classroom and know what you’re looking at from under center that sometimes they weigh the value of that much higher than just the mechanics of throwing a football, or going through reads. They almost want to put more weight on that than your actual ability out there on the football field, partly because they value you as almost part of the coaching staff sometimes. So, I don’t know. I don’t love any of those three choices as a backup quarterback, but I certainly think I would be leaning toward Gilbert and I just don’t get the sense that they feel the same way. It’s kind of a mystery to me.
