LOL @ The Eagles

data

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It's why we shouldn't get cute at 10 with a different corner like Horn. Take the best guy in Surtain and fix the corner problem for years.
If Surtain equals Terence Newman’s career here, are we upset, disappointed, satisfied or thrilled?
 

ravidubey

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Newman gets a bad rap in some Cowboys circles because he didn't get a crap ton of INTs, but he was always solid in my mind.
He was very solid. Fast too.

But we took him over Kevin Williams and Terrell Suggs.

And he had no instincts.

Basically we got a solid guy who lasted most of a decade. A lot like Greg Ellis.

The good: he wasn’t a bust.
The bad: he wasn’t a difference maker.
 

Iamtdg

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He was very solid. Fast too.

But we took him over Kevin Williams and Terrell Suggs.

And he had no instincts.

Basically we got a solid guy who lasted most of a decade. A lot like Greg Ellis.

The good: he wasn’t a bust.
The bad: he wasn’t a difference maker.
Just because he didn't cause a lot of turnovers did not mean he wasn't a difference maker. PDs can be just as effective as INTs if they are consistent. Newman had 183 to Deion's 25.

Deion had 53 INTs in 13 years and Newman had 42 in 14 years. So, if you compare (debatably the best CB to ever play) to Newman that isn't bad.
 

data

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Had Newman been drafted at #10, I think there’d be much less angst. Also if he returned punts as was sold to us fans.
 

Iamtdg

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They started recording PDs in 1999.

Deion Sanders has 0 PDs from 1989 - 1998. Darrell Green also has 0 PDs 1983 - 1998
Then focus on the INTS. Newman only had 12 less than the GOAT. That's 1 less per year. He wasn't this schlub that some people make him out to be.
 

data

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Then focus on the INTS. Newman only had 12 less than the GOAT. That's 1 less per year. He wasn't this schlub that some people make him out to be.
:lol

okay. Nobody here says he’s a schlub, but he’s far from being Deion Sanders.

Deions only #24 on the all time INT list, so there must be other considerations to why he’s the GOAT
 

data

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I never said he was Deion. I was just comparing their numbers.
I expect you to be as forgiving the next time a Zoner comes here and posts empty number comparisons like Prescott averaging 5TDs more than Aikman in their first five years.

How many seconds would it take you to say 'no' if someone asked you if Terence Newman should be in the Ring of Honor?
 

Iamtdg

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I expect you to be as forgiving the next time a Zoner comes here and posts empty number comparisons like Prescott averaging 5TDs more than Aikman in their first five years.

How many seconds would it take you to say 'no' if someone asked you if Terence Newman should be in the Ring of Honor?
Dude...
 

data

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Anyway, if Surtain came here at #10 and posted TNewman-like nine seasons of solid health with consistent above-average-to-Pro Bowl performance, I'd be a little underwhelmed by it, but I wouldn't call it a bust. I'd be okay with it, I guess. Maybe my expectations are too high for #10.

I'm more accepting of Greg Ellis' disposition because we expected solid-not-spectacular.

I guess what are we expecting of Surtain -- Aeneas Williams?
 

Cowboysrock55

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Anyway, if Surtain came here at #10 and posted TNewman-like nine seasons of solid health with consistent above-average-to-Pro Bowl performance, I'd be a little underwhelmed by it, but I wouldn't call it a bust. I'd be okay with it, I guess. Maybe my expectations are too high for #10.

I'm more accepting of Greg Ellis' disposition because we expected solid-not-spectacular.

I guess what are we expecting of Surtain -- Aeneas Williams?
Corners are difficult. Sometimes you can't just look at PD numbers or INT numbers to explain their impact or performance. You have to look deeper like how often are they targeted? On those targets what's the QBs success rate against them? I mean if a guy isn't targeted much or when he is targeted the QB is only completing 48% of those balls with a QB rating below 90 for example that's pretty damn good.

I'd like to think you can just watch a guy and see that he is either playing great or not. But I also wonder if Newman for example I watched with a jaded eye because I didn't like the pick when we made it. Maybe he was an excellent player and helped those defenses be better. But I didn't like the pick when we made it and my memories of Newman were that he wasn't that great. I appreciate that now days we get more detailed numbers and information though.
 

NoDak

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:lol

okay. Nobody here says he’s a schlub, but he’s far from being Deion Sanders.

Deions only #24 on the all time INT list, so there must be other considerations to why he’s the GOAT
Nobody has ever said he is Deion. Only that he gets a bad rap and wasn’t nearly bad as he’s portrayed to be.
 

1bigfan13

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Newman gets a bad rap in some Cowboys circles because he didn't get a crap ton of INTs, but he was always solid in my mind.
I've always been a Newman apologist. Given the lack of INTs Cowboys CBs have gotten over the last 10 years, I'd gladly take Terence Newman-like INT numbers from Surtain and consider it a massive win.
 

1bigfan13

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Anyway, if Surtain came here at #10 and posted TNewman-like nine seasons of solid health with consistent above-average-to-Pro Bowl performance, I'd be a little underwhelmed by it, but I wouldn't call it a bust. I'd be okay with it, I guess. Maybe my expectations are too high for #10.

I'm more accepting of Greg Ellis' disposition because we expected solid-not-spectacular.

I guess what are we expecting of Surtain -- Aeneas Williams?
Surtain was never a big INT/create turnovers guy. Even his high school INT/PD numbers are pretty unremarkable.

So if you're expecting a ballhawk who'll produce 7 or 8 INTs a year, you're probably going to be disappointed.

I think he's going to be more of the Antoine Winfield Sr. type of CB. 2 or 3 INTs a year but gives you great coverage and tackling.
 

ravidubey

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We can get the same kind of career from Asante Samuel Jr. Surtain isn’t that much better, so why take him top ten
 
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