Hill: Why not Johnny Manziel to the Cowboys?

[UncleMilti]

 

[NoDak]

I think you mean BIO.

Boner in onesie.

HEYOOOOOOOOO

 

[Cotton]

Cowboys need to pass on Johnny Manziel
April, 29, 2014

By Calvin Watkins | ESPNDallas.com

The Dallas Cowboys like Johnny Manziel, the quarterback.

His scrambling abilities remind them of their current No. 1 quarterback, Tony Romo.

But please stop with this Manziel-can-replace-Romo jazz.

He can’t.

Manziel is a good college quarterback and there is uncertainty if he can translate his skills to the next level. Manziel has a strong arm, can scramble out of the pocket and is smart. He makes plays all over the field. He’s a motivator. He gets guys to play for him. Good traits for a quarterback.

Though running around the field making plays against college kids is nice and all, do you really think he’ll get away with the way he holds the ball, far away from his body, in the NFL?

Manziel’s 37 touchdowns were impressive in the 2013 season, but his SEC-leading 11 interceptions were not.

He’s a gambler.

Manziel is somebody Jerry Jones likes because, well, let’s be honest, the Cowboys’ owner is a gambler. He gambled the family fortune to purchase the Cowboys in 1989. He gambled in hiring Jimmy Johnson to take over for Tom Landry. He gambled when he parted ways with Johnson and hired Barry Switzer.

He gambled when he hired Bill Parcells. He gambled when he signed Terrell Owens.

This is what Jones does.

It’s how he’s lived the majority of his life, so why wouldn’t he like Manziel, who plays football on the edge?

Manziel is a Top 10 pick, without question.

He’s not perfect, but under the right system has a chance to be a good quarterback.

Just not for the Cowboys.

There are too many other areas for the Cowboys to fix to consider Manziel in the draft. Trading up for Manziel is too costly.

Under the trade value chart, the Cowboys’ No. 16 pick is worth 1,000 points. The No. 1 overall pick is worth 3,000 points. So you must give up two-first round picks, this year and next, to move into the Top 10 to have a shot at Manziel.

Not worth it.

If Manziel falls to the 16th pick, the Cowboys would be faced with an unbelievable amount of pressure to take him.

Jones should either trade down or select somebody else, if Manziel falls, which is doubtful.

Defensive line, cornerback, wide receiver, and offensive tackle are bigger positions of need for the Cowboys than addressing the quarterback position.

If the Cowboys are unsure about Romo’s return from back surgery, getting Manziel in the first round isn’t a smart play. Kyle Orton, the veteran backup, is thinking about retirement. There is some concern about the quarterback position. We get it.

Finding a quarterback in the second or third round is the better value.

The draft is filled with quarterbacks who can help the Cowboys down the line such as Georgia’s Aaron Murray who threw one fewer touchdown (22-21) in conference play than Manziel and had eight interceptions in the SEC.

Manziel is a good quarterback, especially for a team in need of one. The Cowboys are not one of those teams.

A few years ago, Stephen Jones, the executive vice president, was raving about Alabama's Mark Ingram. The running back reminded Cowboys’ officials of Emmitt Smith, the all-time leading rusher.

Guess what?

The Cowboys didn’t draft Ingram.

At this time of year, NFL teams send out smoke signals, and that is what the Cowboys are probably doing now.

You might not like Romo and his chances of leading the Cowboys on a deep playoff run. But with coach Jason Garrett entering the final year of his contract, Romo gives him and the Cowboys the best chance to win, not Manziel.

 

[Cotton]

Staubach: Manziel not a fit for Cowboys
April, 28, 2014

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com

IRVING, Texas -- Roger Staubach has been a fan of Tony Romo since the beginning. He also believes Johnny Manziel will have a long career in the NFL.

But the Dallas Cowboys Hall of Fame quarterback does not want to see Romo and Manziel on the same team.

Recent talk has the Cowboys interested in picking up Manziel in the first round of next week's draft, ranging from doing anything they can to get him to hoping that he would fall close to the 16th pick. On 105.3 The Fan in Dallas on Monday, executive vice president Stephen Jones said any interest in Manziel is "purely speculation,” and that the team has yet to rate the quarterback position as a group.

Romo, who turned 34 last week, is coming off his second back surgery in less than a year, but he has been involved in the offseason conditioning program in the last two weeks and is expected to be ready for on-field work when Phase 2 of the offseason begins.

"I try to make people understand that if you brought Tom Brady here last year or Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, it's a team effort and you need a solid defense or you're going to be 8-8,” Staubach said. "If we had a really good defense we would've been 11-5 easily, I think. I hope (Romo) has three, four more years left in him. The people that really understand football understand how good he is but those with second opinions would be screaming for Manziel all the time.

"I think Manziel has got great instincts. I think he'll be a fine player, but I don't think you want a Manziel when you have a franchise quarterback. Jerry has paid (Romo) as a franchise. I think Tony is that. He's not the reason we're 8-8.That's my feeling.”

To Staubach, a quarterback controversy is the quickest way to hurt a team.

In 1971, coach Tom Landry had Staubach and Craig Morton alternating series before settling on Staubach, and the Cowboys went on to win their first Super Bowl.

"We probably had half of the people want Craig on the field and half of them wanted me, and even teammates might've felt the same if you polled the team early in the year when Craig and I were going back and forth,” Staubach said. "Whoever's going to be the quarterback, you need a quarterback that's the leader and the person in place. Coach, God love him, but that kind of divided the team. You don't want to divide the team on your quarterback. That would be wherever Manziel goes. He's going to get a chance to be a starter. That's what he wants. I think he deserves that. I think he's got that starting quarterback talent.”

 

[Smitty]

Watkins' article is pure garbage.

Oh no, we have needs everywhere, we can't possibly take a franchise QB who will sit on the bench 2 years.

There is nothing more important than having the franchise QB. Being able to seamlessly transition from one high quality starter to the next is worth more to a franchise's chances of success than ten first round picks, if you don't have a competent QB. We have a history of not being able to find a competent QB when the starter retires.

If spending ONE pick, a sixteenth overall selection, is all it took to guarantee a quality successor to Romo in 2 years, we'd be IDIOTS to pass on that simply because "you needed a three technique DT" to help you win an extra game or two this year. Complete idiots.

If that's what you believe Manziel offers, you do it at 16. If you don't believe it.... then that's a different story. But Watkins is saying that he's the real deal, we just can't afford him there.

 

[bbgun]

Jerry might have a crush on Manziel but he is madly in love with Romo. Romo's his baby, and Jerry's always gone to bat for him. Drafting Manziel would be a slap in the face to #9. Worse, Jerry probably thinks we're really really close to getting over the hump, if only we could add a little help on D with good health sprinkled in. Yes, he's delusional, but what else is new?

 

[NoDak]

So, would you trade ten first round picks for say, Tom Brady in his 3rd year?

And I like Manziel, too, but I'd hardly say he is a guaranteed quality successor to Romo.

 

[Smitty]

So, would you trade ten first round picks for say, Tom Brady in his 3rd year?

Well, no trade like that would ever happen, but the point is, if Quincy Carter is your starting QB, you can have ten other first round picks on your offense and you're not going to be a legit contender cause he just can't move the ball. The offense is entirely reliant on a base level of competence at QB. Really more than a level of competence.... more like, at least a certain level of success.

Now you can split hairs over whether you can get by with a Joe Flacco or whether you need a Peyton Manning, but all the first rounds picks in the world matter very little if you don't have a QB. That is not the case for nearly any other position.

And I like Manziel, too, but I'd hardly say he is a guaranteed quality successor to Romo.

Well, nothing is a true guarantee, but certain players are close like Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck when they came out.

The bottom line is you have to feel confident enough. If you feel confident enough that Manziel is a franchise QB, you really can't get overcharged for trading up for him. Certainly isn't too expensive to exercise the 16th pick on him.

I'm aware that a lot of people don't like Manziel as a prospect. I'm not going out on a limb and saying he's a can't-miss player myself either. But this article seems to be saying "Manziel is great, we just can't afford him."

If we're assuming Manziel is great, then there is not a question of whether we can afford him. Any reasonable trade up we make would be well worth it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

So, would you trade ten first round picks for say, Tom Brady in his 3rd year?

And I like Manziel, too, but I'd hardly say he is a guaranteed quality successor to Romo.

QB isn't the only position but lets face it, the impact of a QB far exceeds any other position. It's really not even close in today's NFL and if you want to be competitive on a year to year basis you better have a good one. So if you find a QB that you think that highly of you should take him. Regardless of immediate need or not. The real question is really, what do you think of Manziel? If you grade him as a franchise QB then you draft him and even at a significant cost.

 

[Smitty]

QB isn't the only position but lets face it, the impact of a QB far exceeds any other position. It's really not even close in today's NFL and if you want to be competitive on a year to year basis you better have a good one. So if you find a QB that you think that highly of you should take him. Regardless of immediate need or not. The real question is really, what do you think of Manziel? If you grade him as a franchise QB then you draft him and even at a significant cost.

Right. That's really my point. The team needs to decide whether it thinks Manziel is a franchise QB or not.

If they think he is, then there is really no cost that a team will demand from them to move up that would be "too high."

I don't even think the Redskins overpaid for RG3. Their problem was they traded up for a QB who's not really worth it, but the problem there was getting the evaluation wrong. If he was as effective every season as his rookie year (before the league figured him out), then that trade was a total win for them.

So if Manziel is a Pro Bowl QB, then even paying two firsts and two thirds isn't too much.

It certainly wouldn't be too much to pay a little to move up from 16 to 10.

 

[UncleMilti]

Right. That's really my point. The team needs to decide whether it thinks Manziel is a franchise QB or not.

If they think he is, then there is really no cost that a team will demand from them to move up that would be "too high."

I don't even think the Redskins overpaid for RG3. Their problem was they traded up for a QB who's not really worth it, but the problem there was getting the evaluation wrong. If he was as effective every season as his rookie year (before the league figured him out), then that trade was a total win for them.

So if Manziel is a Pro Bowl QB, then even paying two firsts and two thirds isn't too much.

It certainly wouldn't be too much to pay a little to move up from 16 to 10.

I think the Seahawks have proven you can win a SB with a non-prototypical QB....but the Cowboys and Redskins don't have teams anywhere near the level of the Seahawks.

If Dallas had the Seahawks D, you could probably plug Manziel in at QB and win a lot of games. Put him on the current team, and you might win 6-7 games. Same with the Redskins...give RG3 a great defense, and he definitely has the ability to put up points and win games.

The big problem...as long as Jerry is running the show, the Cowboys are never going to be built like the Seahawks. His drafting sucks, his talent evaluation sucks, and he's too enamored with putting on a show vs. building a FOOTBALL TEAM.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I think the Seahawks have proven you can win a SB with a non-prototypical QB....but the Cowboys and Redskins don't have teams anywhere near the level of the Seahawks.

I think you are underrating Russell Wilson's ability. What was that team before Wilson got there? 7-9

Even with the defense you mentioned and all those other parts. They were a below .500 that turned into a superbowl winner. Another great example would be the Colts prior to Andrew Luck. They didn't suddenly get super talented. They went from a 2 win team to a playoff team the second Luck stepped up to the podium. I'm not saying that Manziel will transform the Cowboys to those significant level because Romo is clearly better then what those teams had at QB before their franchise QB came along. However if Manziel is a franchise QB then when Romo leaves you shouldn't see any significant drop off with the team.

 

[UncleMilti]

I think you are underrating Russell Wilson's ability. What was that team before Wilson got there? 7-9

Even with the defense you mentioned and all those other parts. They were a below .500 that turned into a superbowl winner. Another great example would be the Colts prior to Andrew Luck. They didn't suddenly get super talented. They went from a 2 win team to a playoff team the second Luck stepped up to the podium. I'm not saying that Manziel will transform the Cowboys to those significant level because Romo is clearly better then what those teams had at QB before their franchise QB came along. However if Manziel is a franchise QB then when Romo leaves you shouldn't see any significant drop off with the team.

I never said he didn't have ability. What I basically said was that he's not your prototype QB. The Seahawks run an offense suited to Wilson strengths. I'm not sure to this day that the Cowboys run an offense that suits Romos strengths.

Plus, the Seahawks added Carroll, contributing players- draft and FA wise- who had time to jell before Wilson was drafted. They also went from a -9 TO ratio, to a +8, to a +13, to a +20 in '13...so the team was improving overall across the board when Wilson took the reins.

 

[boozeman]

I never said he didn't have ability. What I basically said was that he's not your prototype QB. The Seahawks run an offense suited to Wilson strengths. I'm not sure to this day that the Cowboys run an offense that suits Romos strengths.

Well, what are Romo's strengths?

It is not like he has not been the recipient of the last few years of Terrell Owens' prime and a blossoming Dez Bryant, plus a functional Witten his entire career.

Are we back to this "a QB needs help!" bullshit again?

 

[Carp]

I definitely think this team has done what it can to make it as Romo friendly as possible. He did suffer through some bad OLs, but he has never lacked for weapons to throw to. Maybe Romo is not as smart as I have given him credit for...I think of all the audibles he calls and still sticks out in my mind that he did not audible out of the consecutive slants to Sam Hurd against the Broncos a few years back. There had to be a better option. Just one example, he's called good audibles, but that one sticks out to me for some reason.

 

[boozeman]

I definitely think this team has done what it can to make it as Romo friendly as possible. He did suffer through some bad OLs, but he has never lacked for weapons to throw to. Maybe Romo is not as smart as I have given him credit for...I think of all the audibles he calls and still sticks out in my mind that he did not audible out of the consecutive slants to Sam Hurd against the Broncos a few years back. There had to be a better option. Just one example, he's called good audibles, but that one sticks out to me for some reason.

Fact is, he's a good QB that can win if you acknowledge his limitations.

Where he has been done wrong is that he has been viewed as better than he is by Jerry. He's been viewed as an "elite" QB and his escape ability etc. has been viewed as a positive more than a necessity.

Last season he was given more input. And the OL did an okay job and he still looked pretty much the same.

Too much on narrow shoulders. It is almost like they forgot where he came from. Small fry, loser but plucky small school guy, Cinderella story, about to win the Master's Championship.

 

[Carp]

I did not like Manziel his freshman year, but I fell in love when he came out after he was suspended for the first half of the first game this year and made the gesture rubbing his fingers together...both making fun of himself and telling his critics to go fuck themselves. It was arrogant...and I loved it.

I like his game too, but I like more than he constantly has a chip on his shoulder.

 

[UncleMilti]

Well, what are Romo's strengths?

It is not like he has not been the recipient of the last few years of Terrell Owens' prime and a blossoming Dez Bryant, plus a functional Witten his entire career.

Are we back to this "a QB needs help!" bullshit again?

Not making excuses for Romo- you of all people know I'm not a huge fan.

His strength is improvising a bit, and sliding around in the pocket....not a recipe for success in Garretts timing system.

Most of the great plays and throws Romo has made in his career came off broken plays, or plays where he directed a WR off their route.

Thats not what Garrett expects or preaches in his offense. I just don't think Romo is a 3 step and fire it down the field kind of QB....he is just better when he freelances. Which also gets him into trouble, which is an entirely different conversation.

 

[p1_]

Cinderella story, about to win the Master's Championship.

 

[UncleMilti]