G.O.A.T.

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Out of all the goat lists produced by respected publications and ppl, I agree with this random youtuber’s list the most. Others tend to have explanations/justifications that I wildly scoff at, but this guy is quite agreeable in how he weighs postseason vs regular, peak vs longevity, supporting cast, and era/stats.

Note, his QB list is right before the Super Bowl regarding Mahomes.

Biggest disagreement is his RB list. He mentions postseason performance for QBs and WRs, but doesn’t mention it once for RBs. As a result, he has Emmitt Smith lower than I would and probably much lower than many of you. This major fail aside, commendable three lists overall.

I would’ve liked him to acknowledge that Staubach lost 4-6 prime years of accumulating career stats and Super Bowl appearances that would’ve propelled him higher in this list.

 

[Simpleton]

Emmitt is the GOAT RB and nothing can convince me otherwise. Most of his OL were JAG's before he came along and his postseason production/success is unparalleled throughout NFL history.

His second half performance in the second Bills Super Bowl cements it for me. Down 13-7 at the half, Troy basically useless and potentially still concussed, and Emmitt singlehandedly takes over the game (with the OL of course) to turn it into a blowout.

The Joe Fans and YouTube generation can ogle some beautiful Barry Sanders 70 yard run in week 8 of the 1994 season against the Falcons or some shit, but when it comes to winning football games at the highest level Emmitt is the best ever.

 

[data]

Emmitt is the GOAT RB and nothing can convince me otherwise. Most of his OL were JAG's before he came along and his postseason production/success is unparalleled throughout NFL history.

His second half performance in the second Bills Super Bowl cements it for me. Down 13-7 at the half, Troy basically useless and potentially still concussed, and Emmitt singlehandedly takes over the game (with the OL of course) to turn it into a blowout.

The Joe Fans and YouTube generation can ogle some beautiful Barry Sanders 70 yard run in week 8 of the 1994 season against the Falcons or some shit, but when it comes to winning football games at the highest level Emmitt is the best ever.

The whole supporting cast argument is largely debunked when you look at Emmitts production 99-2001. Past prime 30YO - 32YO with average line (Larry Allen, aged Erik Williams, decent Flozell Adams), no more Aikman-to-Irvin, team with combined 18-30 W-L, Emmitt still averaged 1,200 yards 4.1YPC.

I don’t know what the average drop off is for 30+ YO running backs are from peak, but 15% seems conservative and applying that to Emmitt it would be 1,400 yards per season.

 

[RoboQB]

The whole supporting cast argument is largely debunked when you look at Emmitts production 99-2001. Past prime 30YO - 32YO with average line (Larry Allen, aged Erik Williams, decent Flozell Adams), no more Aikman-to-Irvin, team with combined 18-30 W-L, Emmitt still averaged 1,200 yards 4.1YPC.

I don’t know what the average drop off is for 30+ YO running backs are from peak, but 15% seems conservative and applying that to Emmitt it would be 1,400 yards per season.

That's an excellent point. One that is rarely made.
I must admit I never thought of that and it pisses me off.. lol

 

[boozeman]

Emmitt is the GOAT RB and nothing can convince me otherwise.

1. Jim Brown
2. Walter Payton
3. Emmitt Smith

That is the way I see it.

Smith is the all-time yardage leader. And he earned it.

I just look through a different lens than you do. I still think he was in the right place at the right time. It was magic.

I didn't see Brown play a live down, but it is clear by the numbers, he was the best in an era when they didn't even try to pass the ball. Same applies for a large part of Payton's career.

 

[bbgun]

Very thoughtful. Prepare to get crushed.

 

[Simpleton]

1. Jim Brown
2. Walter Payton
3. Emmitt Smith

That is the way I see it.

Smith is the all-time yardage leader. And he earned it.

I just look through a different lens than you do. I still think he was in the right place at the right time. It was magic.

I didn't see Brown play a live down, but it is clear by the numbers, he was the best in an era when they didn't even try to pass the ball. Same applies for a large part of Payton's career.

Brown played so long ago that it's almost a different sport, it's one thing to compare guys from like the 80s/90s to today, it's another to go back to like the 50s.

So there's probably an argument for Brown but it's so long ago that it's almost impossible for me to really compare.

Payton and Emmitt had very similar careers but Payton only led the league in rushing once though, compare that to Emmitt and the unprecedented postseason success/production he had and I think you have to put Emmitt ahead of him.

 

[1bigfan13]

The whole supporting cast argument is largely debunked when you look at Emmitts production 99-2001. Past prime 30YO - 32YO with average line (Larry Allen, aged Erik Williams, decent Flozell Adams), no more Aikman-to-Irvin, team with combined 18-30 W-L, Emmitt still averaged 1,200 yards 4.1YPC.

I don’t know what the average drop off is for 30+ YO running backs are from peak, but 15% seems conservative and applying that to Emmitt it would be 1,400 yards per season.

Whenever someone tries to discredit Emmitt because of the OL he played behind, I always point to how poorly the other Cowboys RBs played behind those same O-lines. Emmitt would average 5 ypc while every other RB averaged about 3.5 ypc.

 

[Cotton]

1. Jim Brown
2. Walter Payton
3. Emmitt Smith

That is the way I see it.

Smith is the all-time yardage leader. And he earned it.

I just look through a different lens than you do. I still think he was in the right place at the right time. It was magic.

I didn't see Brown play a live down, but it is clear by the numbers, he was the best in an era when they didn't even try to pass the ball. Same applies for a large part of Payton's career.

No RB to ever play the game had the vision that Emmitt had. None of them. Shit, I'm still convinced that man could see behind him.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Said it before, but there was something about Emmitt that made him look less athletic on TV than he really was. The first time I saw him in person I was surprised at how quick he was. Switzer said the same thing.

 

[Cotton]

Said it before, but there was something about Emmitt that made him look less athletic on TV than he really was. The first time I saw him in person I was surprised at how quick he was. Switzer said the same thing.

His jump cuts were incredible. The man could go from zero to top speed almost instantly. Now, granted his top speed wasn't elite, but he could get there extremely quickly. Look at :26 of this video. That jump cut and vision has never seen an NFL field before.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Brown played so long ago that it's almost a different sport, it's one thing to compare guys from like the 80s/90s to today, it's another to go back to like the 50s.

So there's probably an argument for Brown but it's so long ago that it's almost impossible for me to really compare.

Payton and Emmitt had very similar careers but Payton only led the league in rushing once though, compare that to Emmitt and the unprecedented postseason success/production he had and I think you have to put Emmitt ahead of him.

I agree with your assessment of Emmitt vs Payton. I think Emmitt surpassed him for the reasons you stated.

Brown I disagree with you. First, Brown played until 1965. Walter Payton played in the NFL starting in 1975. Those eras aren't all that different. So if you are including Payton I don't see how you can leave out Brown.

And, Brown was so dominant I don't think you can exclude him regardless. It's like Chamberlain in basketball. Yes the era is different than today, but how can you leave a guy like that out? They were crushing their competition. I can't ignore that.

There are ways that you can reasonably compare guys in different eras, essentially compare them to their contemporaries. Basically the same way you compared Emmitt and Payton. How many times did he lead the league? What were his backups doing? Were they putting up similar numbers? What was his YPC compared to the other greats of the era?

Brown needs to be up there.

Now, I do think there's a cutoff. I wouldn't include a guy like Red Grange for example. I just don't think there was enough competition in that era and not enough context. But once they hit the 1950s and 60s I think there's enough competition, stats, stories, and context to reasonably compare.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Brown needs to be up there.

I agree. He was an absolute freak of nature for the time. But the NFL is bigger and faster now. So you do have to sort of look at the time period. Defenses just couldn't handle a guy like that.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I agree. He was an absolute freak of nature for the time. But the NFL is bigger and faster now. So you do have to sort of look at the time period. Defenses just couldn't handle a guy like that.

But that's what makes a guy great. Defenses can't handle Mahomes right now either. Doesn't make him less great. It's actually exactly what makes him great. It doesn't matter if Mahomes would be less great 30 years from now based on rule changes and better defensive athletes and so forth. It's about context.

 

[Simpleton]

I'm not saying Brown isn't up there or is disqualified, just that it's almost impossible to compare him to someone like Emmitt considering there's a 30-40 year gap between when they played.

In my opinion there are certain inflection points where sports change so much in terms of how they're played that it makes it almost impossible to compare. Like how can you compare Bob Cousy to Chris Paul?

The NBA is way different now than it was in the 90's but it's close enough that you can more or less compare Stockton to Paul, but someone like Cousy in the 50's? Almost impossible.

Most of Brown's career was in the 50's and very early 60's, there wasn't even a Super Bowl during his career. We know he's one of the greatest of all time based on his stats but I find it very difficult to compare him to contemporary players given how drastically different the sport is.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

But that's what makes a guy great. Defenses can't handle Mahomes right now either. Doesn't make him less great. It's actually exactly what makes him great. It doesn't matter if Mahomes would be less great 30 years from now based on rule changes and better defensive athletes and so forth. It's about context.

Yeah I guess that's what I was trying to say. You have to consider context for the time and I think Brown was unreal compared to the competition at the time.

And in fairness I wasn't even close to being alive when he played but I can appreciate it. Not many of us were alive back then.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I'm not saying Brown isn't up there or is disqualified, just that it's almost impossible to compare him to someone like Emmitt considering there's a 30-40 year gap between when they played.

In my opinion there are certain inflection points where sports change so much in terms of how they're played that it makes it almost impossible to compare. Like how can you compare Bob Cousy to Chris Paul?

The NBA is way different now than it was in the 90's but it's close enough that you can more or less compare Stockton to Paul, but someone like Cousy in the 50's? Almost impossible.

Most of Brown's career was in the 50's and very early 60's, there wasn't even a Super Bowl during his career. We know he's one of the greatest of all time based on his stats but I find it very difficult to compare him to contemporary players given how drastically different the sport is.

Brown only played 3 years in the 50s and played 6 years in the 60s. Most of his career was in the 60s.

His contemporaries were guys like Sayers, Hornung, Taylor, and Kelly. Great players. And yet Brown led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 seasons. I'd say that's a pretty good barometer for how great he was.