Expert Witness: Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman when teen was shot

1bigfan13

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Here's why I'd like to see Zimmerman get some type of prison time and it has nothing to do with race.

The dude initiated a fight, started getting his ass handed to him in said fight, then pulls out a gun and shoots the kid.

Does this mean that we can all go around starting fights and as soon as we start getting our asses kicked that it's okay to pull out a gun?

What's to stop others from conducting a similar action against their enemies if this is the precedent that we're setting?

I could see Schmitty baiting Jiggy into a fight, playing rope a dope for a few minutes then capping Jiggy in self-defense.
 

1bigfan13

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A lot of "extra precautionary measures" have been taken in Seminole County already to diffuse any violence stemming from the verdict. The writing has been on the wall from the start of the trial. He may get manslaughter, but beating the murder change has been a cakewalk.
The murder charge was a pipe dream. He'll be convicted of manslaughter is my gut feeling.
 

NoDak

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Here's why I'd like to see Zimmerman get some type of prison time and it has nothing to do with race.

The dude initiated a fight, started getting his ass handed to him in said fight, then pulls out a gun and shoots the kid.

Does this mean that we can all go around starting fights and as soon as we start getting our asses kicked that it's okay to pull out a gun?

What's to stop others from conducting a similar action against their enemies if this is the precedent that we're setting?

I could see Schmitty baiting Jiggy into a fight, playing rope a dope for a few minutes then capping Jiggy in self-defense.
Where has it been proven Zimmerman started the physical confrontation? Everything I've read regarding testimony in the trial points to just the opposite. Or are you of the belief that following somebody is starting a fight?

Edit: Also, you say you think he'll be convicted of manslaughter. But if it was proven Zimmerman started the physical altercation, the murder 2 charge would stick.
 
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1bigfan13

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I honestly haven't followed this thing day by day. I see snippets on the news and from the little that I've seen it sounds as if Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

So I really don't know who threw the first punch because the case really isn't that important to me.
 

BipolarFuk

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The moral of this story is don't play neighborhood cop when you're not one and don't jump out of the bushes on some unknown person in a concealed carry state when all you're armed with is a pack of skittles and bottle of tea.
Agreed. You never know who is packing these days. CWPs are easier to get than drivers licenses in a lot of states. Here all you have to do is show proof of a gun safety course, apply, and soon you get your permit in the mail for less than $100.

If you think you are a badass then you had better join a mma gym somewhere and try to prove you are a man in the cage instead of on the street.
 

NoDak

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I honestly haven't followed this thing day by day. I see snippets on the news and from the little that I've seen it sounds as if Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

So I really don't know who threw the first punch because the case really isn't that important to me.
Yet you say you'd like to see him do prison time.

Makes sense.
 

2233boys

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I believe Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by following the kid. I think that the case has been made in the trail and the subsequent evidence that he never intended to go back to his car. If he had stayed with the car none of this happens. Martin may very well have thrown the first punch but you'll have a hard time making me believe his injuries were to the extent where he needed to use deadly force. He overreacted as did Martin if he indeed threw the first punch. One is a kid and the other is an adult, who should have showed more restraint and acted more responsibly. I think manslaughter is what he should have been charged with, as it is, I don't think he is punished at all. I don't believe that is justice in this case.
 

Smitty

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I believe Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by following the kid. I think that the case has been made in the trail and the subsequent evidence that he never intended to go back to his car. If he had stayed with the car none of this happens. Martin may very well have thrown the first punch but you'll have a hard time making me believe his injuries were to the extent where he needed to use deadly force. He overreacted as did Martin if he indeed threw the first punch. One is a kid and the other is an adult, who should have showed more restraint and acted more responsibly. I think manslaughter is what he should have been charged with, as it is, I don't think he is punished at all. I don't believe that is justice in this case.
I don't think someone following you gives you the right to jump them and start pummeling them.

So every time someone says "Zimmerman should be convicted because he profiled Martin and was following him" you can take that opinion and flush it down a toilet. Zimmerman has self defense as an excuse unless he initiated the confrontation, but following someone is not initiating a confrontation. Throwing a punch is initiating a confrontation. So if Martin threw the first punch, then Martin is the one that initiated. Zimmerman following Martin did not give Martin the right to throw a punch.

I agree with 1bigfan in that, if Zimmerman attacked Martin, Zimmerman then was not entitled to use deadly force to stop the altercation, and he should spend some time in jail.

But I don't think that is what occurred, I think Martin attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman was following Martin.
 

NoDak

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I believe Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by following the kid. I think that the case has been made in the trail and the subsequent evidence that he never intended to go back to his car. If he had stayed with the car none of this happens. Martin may very well have thrown the first punch but you'll have a hard time making me believe his injuries were to the extent where he needed to use deadly force. He overreacted as did Martin if he indeed threw the first punch. One is a kid and the other is an adult, who should have showed more restraint and acted more responsibly. I think manslaughter is what he should have been charged with, as it is, I don't think he is punished at all. I don't believe that is justice in this case.
Following somebody and not going back to his car are not illegal. Assaulting somebody is. It falls on whether Zimmerman thinks his life was in jeopardy. And he very well may have. The prosecution's witnesses even testified that "Martin was on top with his arms moving repeatedly in a downward motion." Regardless of what you think the severity of the injuries showed, they prove Zimmerman's story of how the altercation went down. Right up to where the shot was fired. And an expert testified that beyond doubt, Martin was on top at close range and bent over forward when the bullet entered.

The big question to me is this... The prosecution kept going back to the fact Martin was scared. If he was scared, why not run home when he initially lost Zimmerman? He was only a short distance from there. Why wait for him, or circle back? That, to me, shows who initiated the verbal contact anyway. I don't think there ever would have been an issue if Martin would have just went home if he was scared.

Yeah, Zimmerman probably shouldn't have been following him. He should have went to his car and waited for police. But none of that is illegal, or gives the right for Martin to get physical. And I don't think the state proved even a possibility that Zimmerman was the one that started the physical altercation.

If there is a guilty verdict found in this case, it sure wouldn't be from the evidence presented.
 

NoDak

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I agree with 1bigfan in that, if Zimmerman attacked Martin, Zimmerman then was not entitled to use deadly force to stop the altercation, and he should spend some time in jail.
I agree with this, too.

And I think it is a farce that Zimmerman's past can be admissible in court to show his history, but the texts and pictures from Martin can not. They show he has a history for violence but can't be used? Smells fishy to me.
 

boozeman

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Gawker has a picture of Martin dead at the scene on its front page. Enflame much?
 

Cotton

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Gawker has a picture of Martin dead at the scene on its front page. Enflame much?
The upheaval is coming. Bradie Bottle Lock that shit.
 

Cotton

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More Blood On Obama’s Hands

July 12, 2013 by Bob Livingston


The overhyped and superfluous George Zimmerman trial is winding down, and Florida’s law enforcers are growing antsy. That’s because they’re seeing in social media and hearing from the streets that if Zimmerman is acquitted in a trial that never should have been held to begin with, blacks will riot and kill whites.
If there are riots and people are injured and property is damaged, President Barack Obama and his Department of Justice will be to blame. The blood will be on their hands.

In the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting, Obama claimed that if he had a son, Trayvon Martin is what he’d look like. Then the DOJ dispatched its Community Relations Service (CRS) team to Florida to hold “marches, demonstrations, and rallies” on Martin’s behalf. According to documents obtained by Judicial Watch, the DOJ spent more than $3,800 to incite racial tensions in Sanford, Fla., and oust the police chief because Zimmerman was not charged immediately in Martin’s death. One of the rallies sponsored by CSR was headlined by the notorious race-baiter Al Sharpton. CSR-sponsored rallies went on for a couple of weeks; and if sparking unrest was the goal, the money was well-spent.

Recall that Sanford police investigators believed Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Former State Prosecutor Norman Wolfinger said he would take the case to a grand jury. But he recused himself after Obama’s and the race baiters’ work, aided by the mainstream media propaganda machine, began to bear fruit and the demonstrations began to intensify.

Special prosecutor Angela B. Corey, appointed to replace Wolfinger, initially indicated she would take the case to a grand jury but changed her mind. Conventional wisdom holds that a prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Her decision to avoid the grand jury indicated she knew she had no case. And that’s exactly what the prosecution has presented.

Guessing what a jury will do — especially a jury made up entirely of women — is a fool’s errand. But based on the case presented by the prosecution, it’s evident that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and should be acquitted.

If that happens and Rodney King-style riots or attacks on whites begin, Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder will be to blame. But maybe that’s what they wanted all along.
 

2233boys

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I don't think someone following you gives you the right to jump them and start pummeling them.

So every time someone says "Zimmerman should be convicted because he profiled Martin and was following him" you can take that opinion and flush it down a toilet. Zimmerman has self defense as an excuse unless he initiated the confrontation, but following someone is not initiating a confrontation. Throwing a punch is initiating a confrontation. So if Martin threw the first punch, then Martin is the one that initiated. Zimmerman following Martin did not give Martin the right to throw a punch.

I agree with 1bigfan in that, if Zimmerman attacked Martin, Zimmerman then was not entitled to use deadly force to stop the altercation, and he should spend some time in jail.

But I don't think that is what occurred, I think Martin attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman was following Martin.
I think he should be convicted because he shot and killed a kid. He used deadly force when it wasn't needed. I think he was afraid of the butt whooping he was getting but I feel he needed to be reasonably afraid for his life to use deadly force. From the reports of the injuries and pictures, I think he over reacted.
 
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2233boys

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I guess the bottom line is I don't believe it was justifiable to use deadly force. He initiated the confrontation by his actions. He may have not thrown the first punch but his actions lead to the altercation.
 

Kbrown

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Someone is smashing my face in, and I should magically know when he plans to stop. Ridiculous.
 

Bob Roberts

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If he gets off, I'm sure there will be some people 'following' him around too.

Don't react, dude
 

2233boys

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Someone is smashing my face in, and I should magically know when he plans to stop. Ridiculous.
He put himself in the situation and he was grown ass man following around a kid. Fight back with your fists.
 
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