Cowboys Free Agency Thread

[NoDak]

Put me in the camp as Quinn not being our best pass rusher last year, too. Lawrence was. Like C rock posted above, just raw sack numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

[Smitty]

And we haven't. So you're admitting that you're basing your assessments on things that haven't or might not even happen. But that should come as no surprise when you're already talking up Randy Gregory as an equal replacement for Quinn.

There's reality, and there's where you live.

I didn't say Randy Gregory was an "equal replacement" to Quinn.

Read this carefully, because I think you've worked yourself into a frothing lunatic over very little here:

We are not substantially worse, talent wise, even as we stand here today, over what we fielded last year. And, as I also said from the very beginning of this debate, "It's not over yet." So yes, I am basing my assessment on things that are going to still happen; it's a very basic tenant of my position. There are some quality guys we have yet to sign or draft still. Wouldn't you know it, from the time I originally said that, we signed Clinton-Dix.

As Simp has pointed out to you, losing Jones is not the end of the world. Lewis is a very good player who has been criminally underutilized here. Frankly, I will straight up say we are better off not paying Jones and re-investing that money elsewhere.

As far as DL, losing Quinn stings a little, but he had 11.5 sacks in a campaign where Lawrence had a massive down year with only 5 sacks. Gregory is quite capable of putting up 6 sacks even as a situational player, and yes, possibly more. It will come out in the wash, especially when you figure in the return of Crawford as well, potentially. He is overpaid but a quality depth player.

Couple that with an expected bounce-back year from Lawrence, and the fact that we STILL HAVE THE DRAFT, and we will not be really that much worse off, if at all. If we were to draft Kinlaw at DT, I would say our DL is actually better off than last year.

We can sign Griffen or not. I would be in favor of it, but I don't know how much money he wants. He's also a 32 year old player who had 8 sacks last year but 5 the year before.... he's not necessarily a huge needle-mover. I like him as insurance but he alone doesn't make the difference between us being substantially worse or not.

The simple fact is, you have overblown our talent losses in comparison to our acquisitions. And I highly suspect there is an agenda behind it.

 

[Smitty]

Put me in the camp as Quinn not being our best pass rusher last year, too. Lawrence was. Like C rock posted above, just raw sack numbers don't tell the whole story.

Agreed, despite me being told this was "more bullshit."

 

[Simpleton]

I will say sack numbers don't tell the whole story. Lawrence was a better pass rusher than Quinn last year but the sack numbers don't agree. Here is sort of a great explanation of Lawrence last season.

55. EDGE DEMARCUS LAWRENCE, DALLAS COWBOYS
Demarcus Lawrence saw his sack total dry up this year and ultimately failed to get into double digits after recording 15 and then 13 over the past two seasons. Sacks don't come close to telling the whole story among pass-rushers, however, and he still registered 56 total pressures. His pass-rush was a notch down on a year ago, and another notch still from his phenomenal 2017 season, but his run defense was the best of his career, and his 83.3 PFF grade in that facet of play was a top-10 figure among all edge rushers.

Elite pass rushers often have random years in a sample of like 4 or 5 where they have double digit sacks for 3-4 years and then that random year of 6 or something sandwiched between the others before bouncing back.

I have full confidence that Lawrence will bounce back to 8-12 sacks this year, along with his usually great run defense. It's definitely not a coincidence that Quinn put up the numbers he did since you could tell in real-time how focused offenses were on Lawrence.

 

[Simpleton]

Aside from Griffen I'd love to see us sign either Shelby Harris or Derek Wolfe. They're both kind of similar to Crawford as being undersized DT's/jumbo DE's who will rush inside in nickel/dime, but I think it's important that we add someone else, either an edge rusher like Griffen or an interior like these guys, who can rush the passer in FA instead of just relying on the draft plus Lawrence/Gregory/Crawford/McCoy.

 

[Cotton]

They signed Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, 1 year/4 million, 2.5 guaranteed.

Solid but there's still more to be done.

Nice! That's a damn good addition, especially at that price.

 

[Smitty]

Aside from Griffen I'd love to see us sign either Shelby Harris or Derek Wolfe. They're both kind of similar to Crawford as being undersized DT's/jumbo DE's who will rush inside in nickel/dime, but I think it's important that we add someone else, either an edge rusher like Griffen or an interior like these guys, who can rush the passer in FA instead of just relying on the draft plus Lawrence/Gregory/Crawford/McCoy.

You have to think we're gonna make the random Kerry Hyder/Chris Covington signing at some point.

 

[NoDak]

If you look at Lawrence's raw sack numbers, yeah. They are pretty pedestrian especially when you think about his pay. But when you look deeper, he was still the focal point for opposing offensive coordinators. He was double teamed from start to finish, while Quinn saw exponentially more chances with single blocking. And even with that, he put up elite pressure numbers while playing elite run defense.

The OC on the other side knew he was the one that would wreck their game plan if not accounted for. And that opened things up for Quinn. He should send DLaw a check as thank you for the big pay day he got because of it.

 

[Smitty]

I will still bag on Lawrence. For his hundred million he needs to be putting up 10 sacks, attention or not.

But Quinn was simply not our best pass rusher. That's silly.

From a poster who is quickly establishing himself as a worthless read in my book. And worse, with an anger and personal attack problem.

 

[Stasheroo]

There is obviously a drop off but it's a calculated risk I'm fine taking given the nature of the position and how the team is currently built. You can't throw maximum resources at every spot and I'm comfortable with a lesser pure cover man but a superior playmaker in Lewis, combined with our 2nd and 3rd CB from 2018, along with presumably a mid-round pick.

I'm not. Lewis is certainly more of a playmaker on the football, but he's also feast or famine and nowhere as reliable as Jones was. Not even close. Lewis may make a big play and is just as likely to give up several. That's a big reason why he never played regularly.

It's very possible that we take a CB at 17 although if either of the top DT's or Chaisson are there I'd much rather go that route, and I'd still rather go McKinney even after signing Clinton-Dix, although I'd understand it if they opted for Henderson over him.

I'm with you on either of the defensive tackles, especially since they haven't done anything there other than the McCoy signing. And I'm OK with Henderson if it came down to it. As for the others? No, not at pick #17.

As far as the draft, I don't pigeonhole specific positions into specific rounds but looking at the talent I think we'll be looking at some combination of DT/WR/CB/Edge Rusher/TE/S in the first 3 rounds. Nobody knows how that'll shake out exactly, which is why they need to keep looking to add talent through FA.

WR? Yeah, I'm out on that. Even if it is deep in that area. Defensive needs far outweigh getting a #3 receiver. And Jarwin is your TE.

 

[Cotton]

Robert Quinn was not our best pass rusher.

C'mon, man.

 

[Smitty]

No way does adding another DE mean as much to us as getting a quality third WR in here for Dak.

Our offense depends on it, frankly.

We could have a better defensive performance than last year rolling out what we have right now. With Lewis subbing for Jones and Gregory and Crawford filling in for Quinn. With Heath/Woods upgraded by Clinton-Dix/Woods, in whatever alignment we play them.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Nice! That's a damn good addition, especially at that price.

He is at least a guy who has shown he is capable of picking off passes and he is only 27 years old. This isn't a star player but I read where pff had him as like the 19th best safety in the NFL last year. That seems about right. He is a good starter but not special. Considering there are 64 starting NFL safties being 19 isn't bad at all. Plus he has some physical tools, there is a reason he was a first round draft pick.

 

[Stasheroo]

I will say sack numbers don't tell the whole story. Lawrence was a better pass rusher than Quinn last year but the sack numbers don't agree. Here is sort of a great explanation of Lawrence last season.

55. EDGE DEMARCUS LAWRENCE, DALLAS COWBOYS
Demarcus Lawrence saw his sack total dry up this year and ultimately failed to get into double digits after recording 15 and then 13 over the past two seasons. Sacks don't come close to telling the whole story among pass-rushers, however, and he still registered 56 total pressures. His pass-rush was a notch down on a year ago, and another notch still from his phenomenal 2017 season, but his run defense was the best of his career, and his 83.3 PFF grade in that facet of play was a top-10 figure among all edge rushers.

When opinions override the facts.

But where does even this opinion piece state that "Lawrence was a better pass rusher than Quinn"?

 

[Stasheroo]

Put me in the camp as Quinn not being our best pass rusher last year, too. Lawrence was. Like C rock posted above, just raw sack numbers don't tell the whole story.

But opinion does?

 

[Smitty]

C'mon, man.

You think Quinn was our best past rusher last year? Can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

No way does adding another DE mean as much to us as getting a quality third WR in here for Dak.

Our offense depends on it, frankly.

We could have a better defensive performance than last year rolling out what we have right now. With Lewis subbing for Jones and Gregory and Crawford filling in for Quinn.

If we have a better defensive performance without two of the highest paid NFL free agents and subbing in Lewis and Gregory I'd say thats a massive sign that the coaching is the reason for it.

 

[Cotton]

If you look at Lawrence's raw sack numbers, yeah. They are pretty pedestrian especially when you think about his pay. But when you look deeper, he was still the focal point for opposing offensive coordinators. He was double teamed from start to finish, while Quinn saw exponentially more chances with single blocking. And even with that, he put up elite pressure numbers while playing elite run defense.

The OC on the other side knew he was the one that would wreck their game plan if not accounted for. And that opened things up for Quinn. He should send DLaw a check as thank you for the big pay day he got because of it.

Last year, Quinn was better than Lawrence. And, it's not particularly close. And, before the pitchforks get brazened I said last year. And that statement is 100% true.

 

[Cotton]

No way does adding another DE mean as much to us as getting a quality third WR in here for Dak.

Our offense depends on it, frankly.

We could have a better defensive performance than last year rolling out what we have right now. With Lewis subbing for Jones and Gregory and Crawford filling in for Quinn. With Heath/Woods upgraded by Clinton-Dix/Woods, in whatever alignment we play them.

My order of importance for FA right at this moment:

NT
WR
LB
DE

 

[Cotton]

You think Quinn was our best past rusher last year? Can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

I absolutely do.