Brandon Thomas tears ACL

Smitty

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This draft has to be as good as the Ware/Spears/Canty/Barber/Ratliff draft. It really does.
Doesn't getting a guy like Brandon Thomas in the 5th help it achieve that, rather than, oh, I dunno, Danny Coale or Josh Thomas?

When was the last time we selected a guy in the 5th that panned out?

I totally agree we need another 2005-like homerun draft. I see landing a 3rd round player in the 5th round as a means to that end.

Canty was the same way in 2005. He had injury concerns, it forced a second round player into the fourth, where we got him. Getting him as an injury steal is what helped make that class so epic. Same thing here.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Can the Cowboys? We've seen the same redshirt shit with teams that were not nearly as dependent on the draft as this one.

This draft has to be as good as the Ware/Spears/Canty/Barber/Ratliff draft. It really does.
And if it isn't? Lets say this class takes a year to be worth a shit but in year two it is awesome? This draft class isn't going to make us a superbowl team next year so I don't see what the big deal is if we have to wait a year on the right player. Again it has to be a player that is worth waiting a year for. You can't redshirt on a fifth or sixth round talent. There is no point in doing that. But if the guy is a legit second round talent then who cares if we have to wait a year for our fifth round pick to reach that potential. Especially if he is a long term solution on the O-line.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Doesn't getting a guy like Brandon Thomas in the 5th help it achieve that, rather than, oh, I dunno, Danny Coale or Josh Thomas?

When was the last time we selected a guy in the 5th that panned out?
The only real argument I see against that is this happens to be one of the deepest drafts in a long ass time. The guys in the fifth round of this draft will be significantly better then guys like Coale and Thomas in previous drafts. I don't have a strong personal opinion on Brandon Thomas but if he is a second/third round prospect in this very deep draft then I see no problem taking him in the fifth. Torn ACL's aren't usually a big concern long term.
 

Smitty

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FWIW, the answer to the question "When was the last time we selected a guy in the 5th that panned out" is:

2008. Orlando Scandrick.
 

Clay_Allison

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I don't agree. You don't want to take players with tons of question marks surrounding them, but you do anyway when they are talented enough for the round you are in (like Sean Lee in the 2nd).

This guy doesn't have an injury history that I know of. Nor does he have a degenerative knee condition like Leary, and he's a better prospect than Leary to boot.

He'd be on my radar for possible steal. If I thought the guy would be a long term starter when he heals (which I would, about this player) then I wouldn't take him off my board just due to the fact that he'll miss one season.
You only get 4 seasons with these guys anyway, if he misses one season he's lost 1/4 of his value right out of the gate.
 

Smitty

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You only get 4 seasons with these guys anyway, if he misses one season he's lost 1/4 of his value right out of the gate.
I don't think that's the right way to look at it. First of all, most players don't start or even contribute much their rookie years, so equating a rookie year to an equal value as 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years is a bad way to look at it. Those years are more valuable for almost every player.

Secondly, you'd like to hope you are drafting players it would make sense to give a second contract to. If you let all your draft picks walk after their first contract is up, they probably weren't that great of picks.

Third, if a guy misses his rookie season, then went on to be a solid starter his second and third years, then made the Pro Bowl his fourth year, then walked in free agency, you are actually gonna tell me that was a bad pick in the fifth round because he "lost 1/4 his value right out the gate"? Who gives a shit at that point?

You play to get quality starts out of these guys, not time spent on the active roster. I'll take a player I feel is going to be able to give me those quality starts down the line ten times out of ten over a player who is just going to be a healthy warm body.

This is the same logic that would say David DeCastro was a bad pick for the Steelers because he "lost his rookie year due to various injuries."

Uh.... yeah.... except he was one of the best guards in football his sophomore year and is just gonna keep getting better. So...uh.... that argument doesn't amount to much.

A highly-regarded player missing his rookie year is no where near "losing a quarter of his value." It's a small though notable detriment, which is going to be outweighed by talent, if the player is the hands down BPA, nearly every time, notwithstanding whether the you feel like the injuries will be ongoing (like in Leary's case).
 
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hstour

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Then with any of the 7th's obviously, perhaps the 5th even.
That would be my quandary. I might spend a 6th to get him before other teams, but I don't think it is worth spending a 5th.
 

hstour

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You only get 4 seasons with these guys anyway, if he misses one season he's lost 1/4 of his value right out of the gate.
But you could pick him up with a 7th round pick and then pay him as an UDFA because of the injury. You can still lock him up for 3 years at an UDFA rate and get 3 years of solid backup (and at best a starter position) at that cost.

EVERY team needs players like that to be successful. Belichick gets praised for doing things like that.
 

Carl

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You only get 4 seasons with these guys anyway, if he misses one season he's lost 1/4 of his value right out of the gate.
A week ago, he was a second rounder. If he is there in the 5th round, which he won't be, I would draft him.
 

Carl

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A highly-regarded player missing his rookie year is no where near "losing a quarter of his value." It's a small though notable detriment, which is going to be outweighed by talent, if the player is the hands down BPA, nearly every time, notwithstanding whether the you feel like the injuries will be ongoing (like in Leary's case).
If he misses his first season, then starts 48 straight games, then everything else is irrelevant. The decision then is if you can resign.
 

Smitty

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A week ago, he was a second rounder. If he is there in the 5th round, which he won't be, I would draft him.
Yeah, I'd even probably take him in the fourth. I mean, tell me who else is an option there over Brandon Thomas?
 

Cowboysrock55

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Yeah, I'd even probably take him in the fourth. I mean, tell me who else is an option there over Brandon Thomas?
It's hard for me to say that until draft day. I have a hard time believing that someone won't have fallen to the fourth round that I would love. Of course that is a very different thing then saying I would rather have Thomas then the player we actually end up taking. There is a lot of potential in this particular draft for a very talented player to have fallen through the cracks.
 

Cowboysrock55

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If he misses his first season, then starts 48 straight games, then everything else is irrelevant. The decision then is if you can resign.
It's not as though teams get a player for four years and then he is gone. The team that has a player for 4 years has multiple advantages to resigning that player over every NFL team. That's why free agency isn't jam packed with 26 year old talented starters every year. I'm not just talking about the franchise tag. I'm talking about the fact that players are risk adverse. They know there is more security with the team they have been playing for then to test free agency. The team also can start contract negotiations far before that player is a free agent. No other NFL team has that luxury.

You don't draft players thinking you will have them for 4 years. It's just silly and it sounds like some of the logic I have heard Jerry spew to explain why he doesn't like to draft WRs in the past.
 

dallen

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It isn't like we are winning anything this year anyway. We need to be drafting with an eye on building the future. If we can get a 2nd round talent in the 5th round and sacrifice his rookie season I think that is worth it.
 
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