dallen
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I heard the idea is that they probably aren't suing over the facts of the case, but over the nature of the punishment
Brady Appeal Thread
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Plan9Misfit
Appreciate The Hate
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Exactly. Most people won't remember who was playing QB for them 1 year from now, nor will anyone care. The only thing that matters is having the check mark in the Win column. I don't give a shit how it's done or who the players on the opposing team are so long as we win the game.
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I don't think it has anything to do with the defense. Tom Brady is one of the best if not the best QBs in the NFL. He gives the Patriots a better shot and winning. Doesn't matter what defense they are facing.
L.T. Fan
I'm Easy If You Are
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I think the Dallas defense will do okay against them with Brady. I understand the apprehension of Brady but these are the games that prove and instill confidence.
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I think the defense could do just fine against Brady as well. They will just do better against Garrapolo. There is a reason college teams like to schedule cupcakes at the beginning of the season. They like to build and instill confidence against players they know they will beat.
dallen
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Brady offered to help NFL gather missing text messages
Posted by Mike Florio on July 28, 2015, 10:53 PM EDT
If nothing else, the NFL can (when it wants to) master the art of public relations. Sure, the league screwed the pooch in the Ray Rice debacle last year, failing to realize that a video existed and that it would inevitably be leaked. But while the #DeflateGate episode has featured many very real flaws regarding the substance of the case, the league has done a great job of getting its messages out in a strong, clear way.
It started, of course, with the mistaken air pressure information from the initial letter to the Patriots, in which league executive Dave Gardi told the team that one of the footballs measured at 10.1 PSI — even though none of them were that low. It quickly continued with the leak of blatantly false information to ESPN that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were a full two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. This cemented the notion that someone deflated the footballs, leaving only two questions: (1) who did it?; and (2) who knew about it?
Months later, it became clear that the information was incorrect. But the damage already had been done, with a curiosity instantly morphing into a multi-million-dollar investigation and the Patriots thrown against the ropes from the outset of the fight.
The P.R. mastery continued with the release of the Ted Wells report, which created the initial widespread impression that the Patriots cheated, and that quarterback Tom Brady knew about it. By the time those in the media inclined to digest the 243-page opus began to notice the warts, the narrative had been locked in by those who admittedly didn’t bother to roll up their sleeves and start reading.
The coup de grâce came Tuesday morning, when the league leaked to ESPN that “Brady destroyed his cell phone,” locking in the notion that something sinister — and irreparable — had occurred. The press release announcing the decision likewise focused on the destruction of the cell phone, raising eyebrows from sea to shining sea and reinforcing for many the idea that Brady had something to hide, and that he tried to hide it.
But like the much longer Wells report, closer inspection of the Goodell decision undermines the primary conclusion. And, as usual, the Achilles heel can be found in a footnote.
Specifically, it can be found at footnote 11 on page 12: “After the hearing and after the submission of post-hearing briefs, Mr. Brady’s certified agents offered to provide a spreadsheet that would identify all of the individuals with whom Mr. Brady had exchanged text messages during [the relevant time] period; the agents suggested that the League could contact those individuals and request production of any relevant text messages that they retained. Aside from the fact that, under Article 46, Section 2(f) of the CBA, such information could and should have been provided long before the hearing, the approach suggested in the agents’ letter — which would require tracking down numerous individuals and seeking consent from each to retrieve from their cellphones detailed information about their text message communications during the relevant period — is simply not practical.”
In English, here’s what the footnote means: Although the text messages couldn’t be retrieved directly from Brady’s phone, his agents provided all of the phone numbers with which Brady exchanged text messages. His agents also said that the league could attempt to get the actual text messages from the phones of the people with whom Brady communicated, but the league refused to attempt to try, claiming that it would be too hard to track down the various people and to persuade them to cooperate.
How hard would it be? Goodell’s ruling points out that “nearly 10,000 text messages” were exchanged on Brady’s phone in a four-month period, but Goodell’s ruling doesn’t provide the total volume of numbers that sent text messages to or received text messages from Brady’s “destroyed” phone. At an average of 2,500 text messages sent and received per month, which works out to an average of 83 sent and received per day (with some people surely sending and receiving a lot of short messages to and from Brady), how many people was he actually communicating with?
More importantly, how many of those people are Patriots employees, how many are family members, how many are friends, how many are people who would have no reason to be saying anything to or hearing anything from Brady about this specific case?
“I very much look forward to hearing from Mr. Brady and to considering any new information or evidence that he may bring to my attention,” Goodell said last month. And so Brady admits that he has a habit of dismantling his phone when he buys a new one, he provides the full list of phone numbers with which the dismantled phone communicated, and Goodell nevertheless refuses to try to identify the persons with whom Brady exchanged messages or to obtain the actual content of them, despite the commitment to “considering any new information or evidence.”
The league arguably opted not to track down the text messages or to match them up with text messages that the league already harvested from other phones, like the one used by John Jastremski, because the league already had the silver bullet it needed to win convincingly in the court of public opinion.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
It was expertly leaked to ESPN by the same league office that had expertly leaked the 11-of-12 footballs falsehood to ESPN.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
It’s a theme that will be adhered to even though Brady made available the phone numbers necessary to reconstructing the contents of the messages.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
The details don’t matter once the message takes root. For #DeflateGate, a couple of giant oaks are growing at the NFL’s equivalent of Toomer’s Corner. The first one? 11 of 12 footballs were two pounds under the minimum PSI.
The second?
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/
Like I said yesterday, interesting.
Posted by Mike Florio on July 28, 2015, 10:53 PM EDT
If nothing else, the NFL can (when it wants to) master the art of public relations. Sure, the league screwed the pooch in the Ray Rice debacle last year, failing to realize that a video existed and that it would inevitably be leaked. But while the #DeflateGate episode has featured many very real flaws regarding the substance of the case, the league has done a great job of getting its messages out in a strong, clear way.
It started, of course, with the mistaken air pressure information from the initial letter to the Patriots, in which league executive Dave Gardi told the team that one of the footballs measured at 10.1 PSI — even though none of them were that low. It quickly continued with the leak of blatantly false information to ESPN that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were a full two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. This cemented the notion that someone deflated the footballs, leaving only two questions: (1) who did it?; and (2) who knew about it?
Months later, it became clear that the information was incorrect. But the damage already had been done, with a curiosity instantly morphing into a multi-million-dollar investigation and the Patriots thrown against the ropes from the outset of the fight.
The P.R. mastery continued with the release of the Ted Wells report, which created the initial widespread impression that the Patriots cheated, and that quarterback Tom Brady knew about it. By the time those in the media inclined to digest the 243-page opus began to notice the warts, the narrative had been locked in by those who admittedly didn’t bother to roll up their sleeves and start reading.
The coup de grâce came Tuesday morning, when the league leaked to ESPN that “Brady destroyed his cell phone,” locking in the notion that something sinister — and irreparable — had occurred. The press release announcing the decision likewise focused on the destruction of the cell phone, raising eyebrows from sea to shining sea and reinforcing for many the idea that Brady had something to hide, and that he tried to hide it.
But like the much longer Wells report, closer inspection of the Goodell decision undermines the primary conclusion. And, as usual, the Achilles heel can be found in a footnote.
Specifically, it can be found at footnote 11 on page 12: “After the hearing and after the submission of post-hearing briefs, Mr. Brady’s certified agents offered to provide a spreadsheet that would identify all of the individuals with whom Mr. Brady had exchanged text messages during [the relevant time] period; the agents suggested that the League could contact those individuals and request production of any relevant text messages that they retained. Aside from the fact that, under Article 46, Section 2(f) of the CBA, such information could and should have been provided long before the hearing, the approach suggested in the agents’ letter — which would require tracking down numerous individuals and seeking consent from each to retrieve from their cellphones detailed information about their text message communications during the relevant period — is simply not practical.”
In English, here’s what the footnote means: Although the text messages couldn’t be retrieved directly from Brady’s phone, his agents provided all of the phone numbers with which Brady exchanged text messages. His agents also said that the league could attempt to get the actual text messages from the phones of the people with whom Brady communicated, but the league refused to attempt to try, claiming that it would be too hard to track down the various people and to persuade them to cooperate.
How hard would it be? Goodell’s ruling points out that “nearly 10,000 text messages” were exchanged on Brady’s phone in a four-month period, but Goodell’s ruling doesn’t provide the total volume of numbers that sent text messages to or received text messages from Brady’s “destroyed” phone. At an average of 2,500 text messages sent and received per month, which works out to an average of 83 sent and received per day (with some people surely sending and receiving a lot of short messages to and from Brady), how many people was he actually communicating with?
More importantly, how many of those people are Patriots employees, how many are family members, how many are friends, how many are people who would have no reason to be saying anything to or hearing anything from Brady about this specific case?
“I very much look forward to hearing from Mr. Brady and to considering any new information or evidence that he may bring to my attention,” Goodell said last month. And so Brady admits that he has a habit of dismantling his phone when he buys a new one, he provides the full list of phone numbers with which the dismantled phone communicated, and Goodell nevertheless refuses to try to identify the persons with whom Brady exchanged messages or to obtain the actual content of them, despite the commitment to “considering any new information or evidence.”
The league arguably opted not to track down the text messages or to match them up with text messages that the league already harvested from other phones, like the one used by John Jastremski, because the league already had the silver bullet it needed to win convincingly in the court of public opinion.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
It was expertly leaked to ESPN by the same league office that had expertly leaked the 11-of-12 footballs falsehood to ESPN.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
It’s a theme that will be adhered to even though Brady made available the phone numbers necessary to reconstructing the contents of the messages.
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
The details don’t matter once the message takes root. For #DeflateGate, a couple of giant oaks are growing at the NFL’s equivalent of Toomer’s Corner. The first one? 11 of 12 footballs were two pounds under the minimum PSI.
The second?
Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/
Like I said yesterday, interesting.
peplaw06
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There is more to it than just proving irreparable harm... You also have to prove likelihood of success on the merits.
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Absolutely none of this is interesting. Hey I destroyed the evidence. But here let me give you up a spreadsheet I've created of people I contacted. I promise that I'm not leaving any names out or anything. And that the people who I'm listing will all cooperate. It's just ridiculous that this is some type of a defense. I think Aaron Hernandez was giving Brady advice or something.
dallen
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If you say so, but Kraft just threw down the gauntlet again and basically retracted everything he said in May.
Clay_Allison
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I wonder if the language of the CBA is specific enough to give the NFL subpoena power over all your personal property. If I was Brady I would not trust the NFL with my cell phone, if they didn't get what they wanted they would probably just leak anything embarrassing they found to further smear his reputation.
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Only courts have subpoena power. But I think what you're saying is that the CBA requires players to fully cooperate with an investigation. AKA turn over everything that the league requests.
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I heard on radio this morning that the NFL PA was upset that the league didn't give a counter offer when they attempted to negotiate the suspension down. What did they expect? Their offer was no suspension and he will pay a fine. Umm ok, that's not an offer at all. Why should they get any sort of a counter.
dallen
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According to Kraft every non-NFLPA Patriots employee's cell phone that was texted was provided to the NFL
Genghis Khan
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Geez I forgot about that. How high is the bar for that? Because there's a CBA I'd guess the court ultimately would be loathe to supersede its scope unless there's something egregious involved.
Genghis Khan
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Even if that's true, that doesn't include teammates, friends and family members with whom Brady may have communicated relevant information.
The Patriots seem to want the investigation to have been conducted on their terms. That would make a farce of the process. It's also really obnoxious and arrogant.
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This is the problem, it's according to Kraft. There is no way to know if every employee cell phone was actually turned over without seeing who all Brady was actually texting. Unless the Patriots actually turned over Brady's cell phone records from the cell phone company itself it's still shady as hell. And no the Patriots and Tom Brady did not do that. I love how Kraft somehow assumed that since he accepted the teams punishment that the NFL would back off punishing Tom Brady.
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I love it. I think he is mostly upset because he feels like his best friend Goodell betrayed him.