Another serious question for the pros here - medical related

[Smitty]

You don't like your own talking points Schmidtty?

Those aren't my talking points, that's you putting your own biased spin on it and then putting words in my mouth.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Those aren't my talking points, that's you putting your own biased spin on it and then putting words in my mouth.

They all came from you. Every point. None came from me because I advocated a pro active approach being each individual has responsibility for their actions. The counter points you made are summarized in the blurb to present to Carl.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

They all came from you. Every point. None came from me because I advocated a pro active approach being each individual has responsibility for their actions. The counter points you made are summarized in the blurb to present to Carl.

I might not agree with the system but I think people would be a fool not to take advantage of the system as it is currently set up. As far as the amount is concerned $20,000.00 to me wouldn't make sense to file bankruptcy. However someone whose income is in the $20,000 - $30,000 range may find it to be beneficial.

 

[Smitty]

They all came from you. Every point. None came from me because I advocated a pro active approach being each individual has responsibility for their actions. The counter points you made are summarized in the blurb to present to Carl.

The ideas came from me, the spin came from you.

But it's ok, that's what people who have been owned resort to.

 

[Deuce]

My wife and I filed for Chapter 7 two years ago and it's been a life changer. Similar situation to Carl's in that we had 2 babies in the last 5 years, one was complicated and had medical concerns for the first year of his life which required medication that wasn't covered by insurance that is given to me by the friggin hospital that treated him. We racked up $6k in medication alone for him in that year. Then after the 2nd, my wife had a separate medical issue and needed surgery.

In all, I can't recall how much debt we were in between medical, that credit card and whatever but my family is much better for it now. We didn't have to give up the house, any cars or anything really. We gave the attorney our bank statements, all the bills, and claimed it was a change in life circumstance since my wife had to stop teaching for a time due to her medical stuff. Went off without a hitch and 2 years later my credit is almost all the way back.

I would recommend it to anyone who has the need and can make life easier.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

Hospitals can pretty much go fuck themselves. Seton Southwest in Austin for damn sure can. Several years ago I took my daughter to the emergency room. Turned out she just had a particularly nasty stomach virus. We spent a few hours in an exam room, the doctor came in a couple times and spent a total of 10 minutes at most with her. Besides some ibuprofen she received a bag of fluids. The bill: $5200. And that was just from the hospital. The doctor sent a separate bill for nearly $400. At that time my wife was only employed part-time and we had shitty insurance for her and the girls (my insurance was around $150/mo for me but would have been > $900/mo to add dependents so we had an independent policy to cover wife/kids).

I had face to face meetings (eventually, after a lot of pushing) and essentially told them no, I will not accept your payment plan because there is not a chance in hell I am paying that kind of fee for the services we received. A f'ing IV was really all she got. I told them in what was really kind of an idle threat that we could negotiate or they can let it go to collections and good luck (I wasn't going to do that as I didn't want to damage my credit).

In the end I got them down to $1800 (plus whatever we owed the doctor), which was still pretty outrageous, IMO. They were prickly about it pretty much all the way through. The fee just to walk to the goddamn door to the emergency room there was around $2500. They gouge the living shit out of people and then wonder why so many people default on their payments. It is out of control and it is an increasingly growing problem.

 

[Cotton]

Hospitals can pretty much go fuck themselves. Seton Southwest in Austin for damn sure can. Several years ago I took my daughter to the emergency room. Turned out she just had a particularly nasty stomach virus. We spent a few hours in an exam room, the doctor came in a couple times and spent a total of 10 minutes at most with her. Besides some ibuprofen she received a bag of fluids. The bill: $5200. And that was just from the hospital. The doctor sent a separate bill for nearly $400. At that time my wife was only employed part-time and we had shitty insurance for her and the girls (my insurance was around $150/mo for me but would have been > $900/mo to add dependents so we had an independent policy to cover wife/kids).

I had face to face meetings (eventually, after a lot of pushing) and essentially told them no, I will not accept your payment plan because there is not a chance in hell I am paying that kind of fee for the services we received. A f'ing IV was really all she got. I told them in what was really kind of an idle threat that we could negotiate or they can let it go to collections and good luck (I wasn't going to do that as I didn't want to damage my credit).

In the end I got them down to $1800 (plus whatever we owed the doctor), which was still pretty outrageous, IMO. They were prickly about it pretty much all the way through. The fee just to walk to the goddamn door to the emergency room there was around $2500. They gouge the living shit out of people and then wonder why so many people default on their payments. It is out of control and it is an increasingly growing problem.

Doctors and insurance companies. Pretty much scum of the earth. Both of them. And, they collude on all of that shit which makes it even worse.

 

[Deuce]

Doctors and insurance companies. Pretty much scum of the earth. Both of them. And, they collude on all of that shit which makes it even worse.

That's one of the reasons our medical bills were so high. I work for the hospital we had the bills with and they owned the insurance company they offer us so to restrict us to only using their own people and pharmacies.

 

[Kbrown]

Hospitals can pretty much go fuck themselves. Seton Southwest in Austin for damn sure can. Several years ago I took my daughter to the emergency room. Turned out she just had a particularly nasty stomach virus. We spent a few hours in an exam room, the doctor came in a couple times and spent a total of 10 minutes at most with her. Besides some ibuprofen she received a bag of fluids. The bill: $5200. And that was just from the hospital. The doctor sent a separate bill for nearly $400. At that time my wife was only employed part-time and we had shitty insurance for her and the girls (my insurance was around $150/mo for me but would have been > $900/mo to add dependents so we had an independent policy to cover wife/kids).

I had face to face meetings (eventually, after a lot of pushing) and essentially told them no, I will not accept your payment plan because there is not a chance in hell I am paying that kind of fee for the services we received. A f'ing IV was really all she got. I told them in what was really kind of an idle threat that we could negotiate or they can let it go to collections and good luck (I wasn't going to do that as I didn't want to damage my credit).

In the end I got them down to $1800 (plus whatever we owed the doctor), which was still pretty outrageous, IMO. They were prickly about it pretty much all the way through. The fee just to walk to the goddamn door to the emergency room there was around $2500. They gouge the living shit out of people and then wonder why so many people default on their payments. It is out of control and it is an increasingly growing problem.

You should have thought about all that BEFORE you decided to let your daughter get sick. Whatever happened to good ol' personal responsibility in this country??

 

[dallen]

That's one of the reasons our medical bills were so high. I work for the hospital we had the bills with and they owned the insurance company they offer us so to restrict us to only using their own people and pharmacies.

When my wife was working at the hospital that's how her insurance was too. You'd think they would at least give you an employee discount.

 

[L.T. Fan]

You should have thought about all that BEFORE you decided to let your daughter get sick. Whatever happened to good ol' personal responsibility in this country??

You are a prime candidate for socialism. I wouldn't have said this except for your barb at me. I will be the first to say that they are justifiable reasons for bankruptcy because I have been exposed to people's financial circumstances longer than some of you have been on this earth but I am my ashamed that I will always first advocate that one should do everything possible to meet their obligations.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

You should have thought about all that BEFORE you decided to let your daughter get sick. Whatever happened to good ol' personal responsibility in this country??

Honestly I knew when I took her in that insurance wasn't going to pay anything. It was basically a catastrophic plan and didn't pay anything other than some basic doctor visits until we paid like $7500 to meet the deductible. I was reluctant to take her in at all knowing that but began to be concerned that she had appendicitis. Obviously concerns for a child's health trump all else in that situation.

After we left the emergency room though I foolishly thought to myself "Well, how bad can it be? It was just some time in the exam room and a bag of IV fluids." I assumed I was going to get bent over but $5200 was well beyond my expectations of how badly they would gouge us.

The reason our insurance was so bad at that time was because a) my insurance was great for me but way too expensive to cover my dependents and b) my wife was working part-time and had no benefits because she had returned to school to get certified to teach. So as a result we could only afford insurance that would have ostensibly saved us from being completely financially ruined if something far more serious had happened. Serves us right for trying to raise a family while also trying to better ourselves through further education I guess.

 

[dallen]

You are a prime candidate for socialism. I wouldn't have said this except for your barb at me. I will be the first to say that they are justifiable reasons for bankruptcy because I have been exposed to people's financial circumstances longer than some of you have been on this earth but I am my ashamed that I will always first advocate that one should do everything possible to meet their obligations.

Do you have Medicare?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The reason our insurance was so bad at that time was because a) my insurance was great for me but way too expensive to cover my dependents and b) my wife was working part-time and had no benefits because she had returned to school to get certified to teach. So as a result we could only afford insurance that would have ostensibly saved us from being completely financially ruined if something far more serious had happened. Serves us right for trying to raise a family while also trying to better ourselves through further education I guess.

Sometimes it makes more financial sense to save your money then it does to pay into a health insurance policy. Honestly if you're going to be paying in 900 dollars a month for health insurance, unless you're spending $10,800.00 year in health care it's just not worth it. You're better off with a cheap catastrophic plan that you basically never use.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

Sometimes it makes more financial sense to save your money then it does to pay into a health insurance policy. Honestly if you're going to be paying in 900 dollars a month for health insurance, unless you're spending $10,800.00 year in health care it's just not worth it. You're better off with a cheap catastrophic plan that you basically never use.

Well sure. A guy I used to work with doesn't believe in insurance and would just put about $500/mo. into a savings account for his healthcare. Of course he has no children, doesn't own a car because he refuses to buy gas/contribute to the oil companies, lives in a trailer that he paid off years ago, and overall has an extremely low cost of living. He is also the most anti-government person I have ever known personally as well as the most serious atheist, but those things are beside the point.

I wouldn't have dreamed of paying $900/mo for insurance. That is why we had that catastrophic plan at that time. Unfortunately we had an emergency room visit to deal with when that's all we had for the girls. Had I not decided to be the squeaky wheel (well, ear-piercingly squeaky wheel) we would have ended up paying every cent of that bill. I decided to take a stand though and it paid off, but not without a considerable amount of pushing and demanding.

 

[Smitty]

You are a prime candidate for socialism. I wouldn't have said this except for your barb at me. I will be the first to say that they are justifiable reasons for bankruptcy because I have been exposed to people's financial circumstances longer than some of you have been on this earth but I am my ashamed that I will always first advocate that one should do everything possible to meet their obligations.

Its not socialism doucheface.

No one is forcibly redistributing assets here. The plain facts which you can't seem to grasp is that there is no moral obligation to pay those outrageous bills. The hospital is a for-profit capitalistic enterprise and in a capitalist system they bear the risk of non payment when the services they extend can't be paid for. This is especially the case given the fact that they have no ethical high ground to stand on given their outrageous billing practices.

Its not socialism any more than letting the big banks fail would have been socialism. They fucked up on their own through their greedy practices. Consumers have a legal and constitutionally-established way out of the mess, and it is not in the slightest any moral failing on their part to choose that way out.

I think everyone agrees people should "meet their obligations." Paying usurious interest rates or unjustifiable medical bills is not a moral obligation though.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Do you have Medicare?

I think you already know the answer to that but it has nothing to do with a simple point I have been.making. Namely that responsibility should always be addressed as the FIRST option.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Its not socialism doucheface.

No one is forcibly redistributing assets here. The plain facts which you can't seem to grasp is that there is no moral obligation to pay those outrageous bills. The hospital is a for-profit capitalistic enterprise and in a capitalist system they bear the risk of non payment when the services they extend can't be paid for. This is especially the case given the fact that they have no ethical high ground to stand on given their outrageous billing practices.

Its not socialism any more than letting the big banks fail would have been socialism. They fucked up on their own through their greedy practices. Consumers have a legal and constitutionally-established way out of the mess, and it is not in the slightest any moral failing on their part to choose that way out.

Still the name caller.

 

[Smitty]

Still the name caller.

Comparing our position to socialism is disingenuous and equivalent to name calling, so we're even.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I think you already know the answer to that but it has nothing to do with a simple point I have been.making. Namely that responsibility should always be addressed as the FIRST option.

Communist!!!

I understand your point about responsibility. I think what people are trying to illustrate here is that it needs to work both ways. Do you think it is responsible of a hospital to charge someone $5200 for an emergency room visit where all that is administered is an IV bag?