America can save $1 trillion and get better health care

[dallen]

What is needed is massive health care reform, not another bullshit shell game. Never happen though, too much money to be made.

We keep trying to have health insurance reform instead of addressing the real issue that medical care is not even in the ballpark of reasonably priced. You wouldn't need insurance if it didn't cost $100,000 to go to the ER.

 

[BipolarFuk]

We keep trying to have health insurance reform instead of addressing the real issue that medical care is not even in the ballpark of reasonably priced. You wouldn't need insurance if it didn't cost $100,000 to go to the ER.

Exactly. Politicians are too gutless to affect real change in the system.

I mean, for fuck's sake, all these dipshit Trump voters that live reasonably near Mexico are going there for dental care because it is so much cheaper.

America First!!!!! Uh, unless I can get it cheaper in the country I want to build a wall against.

 

[L.T. Fan]

We keep trying to have health insurance reform instead of addressing the real issue that medical care is not even in the ballpark of reasonably priced. You wouldn't need insurance if it didn't cost $100,000 to go to the ER.

Put medical care in the marketplace and that will take care of a lot of the non competitive cost factors. Get rid of government controlled care except for the necessary segments of the population. Don't require insurance coverage and the price of insurance will come down. The thing that makes medical care outrageous is the fact that it is required.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Put medical care in the marketplace and that will take care of a lot of the non competitive cost factors. Get rid of government controlled care except for the necessary segments of the population. Don't require insurance coverage and the price of insurance will come down. The thing that makes medical care outrageous is the fact that it is required.

Yeah, government is a big part of why the system is so screwed up. I agree that you have to cover the impoverished. No one wants a child to die because their parents don't have a job or are unable to get a job. You have to have that security net. But beyond that government needs to get out of the business all together. And frankly the FDA is a massive part of the problem too.

 

[boozeman]

We keep trying to have health insurance reform instead of addressing the real issue that medical care is not even in the ballpark of reasonably priced. You wouldn't need insurance if it didn't cost $100,000 to go to the ER.

Some kook said this:

Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government.

Points to consider:

1. No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.
2. If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual.
3. Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism.
4. More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices.
5. Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner.
6. First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have.
7. The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor.
8. Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship.
9. The tax code, including the ERISA laws, must be changed to give everyone equal treatment by allowing a 100% tax credit for all medical expenses.
   Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not.
10. Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.
11. Long-term insurance policies should be available to young people similar to term-life insurances that offer fixed prices for long periods of time.
12. The principle of insurance should be remembered. Its purpose in a free market is to measure risk, not to be used synonymously with social welfare programs. Any program that provides for first-dollar payment is no longer insurance. This would be similar to giving coverage for gasoline and repair bills to those who buy car insurance or providing food insurance for people to go to the grocery store. Obviously, that could not work.
13. The cozy relationship between organized medicine and government must be reversed.
    Early on medical insurance was promoted by the medical community in order to boost re-imbursements to doctors and hospitals. That partnership has morphed into the government/insurance industry still being promoted by the current administration.
14. Threatening individuals with huge fines by forcing them to buy insurance is a boon to the insurance companies.
15. There must be more competition for individuals entering into the medical field. Licensing strictly limits the number of individuals who can provide patient care. A lot of problems were created in 20th century as a consequence the Flexner Report (1910), which was financed by the Carnegie Foundation and strongly supported by the AMA. Many medical schools were closed and the number of doctors was drastically reduced. The motivation was to close down medical schools that catered to women, minorities and especially homeopathy. We continue to suffer from these changes which were designed to protect physician’s income and promote allopathic medicine over the more natural cures and prevention of homeopathic medicine.
16. We must remove any obstacles for people seeking holistic and nutritional alternatives to current medical care. We must remove the threat of further regulations pushed by the drug companies now working worldwide to limit these alternatives.
17. True competition in the delivery of medical care is what is needed, not more government meddling.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Should healthcare be a right?

It is okay to call it a right as long as the right doesn't have to be funded by someone else. The "entitled " mentality is a relatively new movement in this country. There are some that remember when every tub sat on its own bottom.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Should healthcare be a right?

No, you should never have the "right" to the services of another human being.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Then, no, you don't think it should be a right.

There is a segment that I think should be entitled to medical care.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Veterans?

Veterans who have served in combat and veterans who are indegent..

 

[boozeman]

Veterans who have served in combat and veterans who are indegent..

Say that reminds me. VA hospitals are a joke.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Say that reminds me. VA hospitals are a joke.

They are being overhauled by new directors I understand and hopefully will be purged and functional soon.

 

[Smitty]

Uh, yeah, 22 million losing coverage under the current (R) plan is pretty ghastly.

That's a short sighted view of things.

I have an insurance option with my employer. It would cost me about three times more than being "uninsured" -- which I am. However, I am a member of a "health share" organization, where the members pay a premium every month (in my case, $500 for a family of 3) for the organization to negotiate down your care prices and then reimburse you your out-of-pocket costs after a 1500 yearly deductible. Sure, it takes a while to get the reimbursement check, and sure, my health share organization can pick and choose what it wants to cover (up front, of course, not ex post facto) free from the mandates of a overburdensome bureaucracy, and in a healthy year, we probably will not even spend our deductible, so I am paying all my health care costs out of pocket, plus $500 a month.

But my work insurance plan would be like 1200 a month for a family of three, plus "co-insurance", up to a 13,500 yearly out of pocket max!

What a fucking rip off!

I'll take being uninsured, thanks. Good thing these health share organizations exist with exemptions from the ACA mandate. I'd be broke!

It is infinitely more beneficial to me to be off ACA mandate insurance. Both for my health costs and my monthly budget.

 

[Smitty]

Some kook said this:

Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government.

Points to consider:

1. No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.
2. If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual.
3. Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism.
4. More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices.
5. Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner.
6. First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have.
7. The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor.
8. Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship.
9. The tax code, including the ERISA laws, must be changed to give everyone equal treatment by allowing a 100% tax credit for all medical expenses.
   Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not.
10. Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.
11. Long-term insurance policies should be available to young people similar to term-life insurances that offer fixed prices for long periods of time.
12. The principle of insurance should be remembered. Its purpose in a free market is to measure risk, not to be used synonymously with social welfare programs. Any program that provides for first-dollar payment is no longer insurance. This would be similar to giving coverage for gasoline and repair bills to those who buy car insurance or providing food insurance for people to go to the grocery store. Obviously, that could not work.
13. The cozy relationship between organized medicine and government must be reversed.
    Early on medical insurance was promoted by the medical community in order to boost re-imbursements to doctors and hospitals. That partnership has morphed into the government/insurance industry still being promoted by the current administration.
14. Threatening individuals with huge fines by forcing them to buy insurance is a boon to the insurance companies.
15. There must be more competition for individuals entering into the medical field. Licensing strictly limits the number of individuals who can provide patient care. A lot of problems were created in 20th century as a consequence the Flexner Report (1910), which was financed by the Carnegie Foundation and strongly supported by the AMA. Many medical schools were closed and the number of doctors was drastically reduced. The motivation was to close down medical schools that catered to women, minorities and especially homeopathy. We continue to suffer from these changes which were designed to protect physician’s income and promote allopathic medicine over the more natural cures and prevention of homeopathic medicine.
16. We must remove any obstacles for people seeking holistic and nutritional alternatives to current medical care. We must remove the threat of further regulations pushed by the drug companies now working worldwide to limit these alternatives.
17. True competition in the delivery of medical care is what is needed, not more government meddling.

My boy RP!

 

[Smitty]

Should healthcare be a right?

It's not a right. So whether someone thinks it is or isn't, is irrelevant.

 

[Cotton]

It's not a right. So whether someone thinks it is or isn't, is irrelevant.

Correct.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Not sure what you're add-on means...I'm reading your comment as a person taking away health services from another person so they are unable to receive it; I don't think that's what you're saying, though.

No what I'm saying is that for one person to receive health care as a "right" you then have to turn around and say someone must provide that health care. I don't think anyone has a right to another humans service. Rights are things that prevent the government from doing certain things. Right to bare arms, right to freedom of religion, the right against unreasonable search and seizure. Rights prevent the government from doing something tyrannical.

It's why healthcare isn't a right. Just like you don't have a right to a firefighter. They are services that government can provide but they aren't "rights."

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That's a short sighted view of things.

I have an insurance option with my employer. It would cost me about three times more than being "uninsured" -- which I am. However, I am a member of a "health share" organization, where the members pay a premium every month (in my case, $500 for a family of 3) for the organization to negotiate down your care prices and then reimburse you your out-of-pocket costs after a 1500 yearly deductible. Sure, it takes a while to get the reimbursement check, and sure, my health share organization can pick and choose what it wants to cover (up front, of course, not ex post facto) free from the mandates of a overburdensome bureaucracy, and in a healthy year, we probably will not even spend our deductible, so I am paying all my health care costs out of pocket, plus $500 a month.

But my work insurance plan would be like 1200 a month for a family of three, plus "co-insurance", up to a 13,500 yearly out of pocket max!

What a fucking rip off!

I'll take being uninsured, thanks. Good thing these health share organizations exist with exemptions from the ACA mandate. I'd be broke!

It is infinitely more beneficial to me to be off ACA mandate insurance. Both for my health costs and my monthly budget.

Yeah pretty much. I find it is more beneficial to put $500.00 in my bank every month in case I need to pay for a medical procedure as opposed to paying an insurance company and then still having a deductible that I must clear. And as a single person who hasn't needed the doctor in more than 5 years it would be silly for me to have paid $30,000.00 to an insurance company during that period of time.

 

[midswat]

This sounds quite odd, are there people you don't want "breeding" and "surviving"?

• Fat people
• Liberals
• Most Cowboys fans
• Anyone with the last name Jones or Garrett