50 dead in mass shooting at Gay Night Club in Orlando

[townsend]

Yeah the coddling of youth is coming back to bite us.

It's doubly bad in this shooters culture because the males are pretty much worshipped growing up.

I think it's coddling and a lot of unexplored and outdated gender roles we haven't really fathomed. Think of how many movie/television/comic book heroes who specifically achieve their goals through violence. I think we're still conditioning men to grow up into soldiers, it's the highest acheivement that you can earn. Cowboys, and Knights, and starship captains, and superheroes and Jedi are all combatants.

We've spent centuries, if not millenia romanticizing justified killers. So as a person's life falls apart, I think those ideals bleed through in dangerous ways. All you need is a nemesis, which these boys (some of whom are in their 40s and 50s) supply with their own insane us vs them narrative.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I think it's coddling and a lot of unexplored and outdated gender roles we haven't really fathomed. Think of how many movie/television/comic book heroes who specifically achieve their goals through violence. I think we're still conditioning men to grow up into soldiers, it's the highest acheivement that you can earn. Cowboys, and Knights, and starship captains, and superheroes and Jedi are all combatants.

We've spent centuries, if not millenia romanticizing justified killers. So as a person's life falls apart, I think those ideals bleed through in dangerous ways. All you need is a nemesis, which these boys (some of whom are in their 40s and 50s) supply with their own insane us vs them narrative.

I think the 2 biggest things are can't get the girl I deserve and can't get the job worthy of me.

And they both circle back to self-worth and gender roles play a lot into that self worth.

Especially in the middle eastern cultures which is the draw for the home grown militants.

But I think this guy was more of a poser than radical Muslim.

 

[Cotton]

I think the 2 biggest things are can't get the girl I deserve and can't get the job worthy of me.

And they both circle back to self-worth and gender roles play a lot into that self worth.

Especially in the middle eastern cultures which is the draw for the home grown militants.

But I think this guy was more of a poser than radical Muslim.

That's because millenials are self-entitled little shits that think shit should be given to them. And, mine and your generation is at fault for it.

 

[townsend]

That's because millenials are self-entitled little shits that think shit should be given to them. And, mine and your generation is at fault for it.

That's a lazy narrative. Not all spree killers are millenials. Also, more pointedly, almost all millenials aren't spree killers.

Obviously there's a higher concentration of frustrated and entitled males from this era, but I think that has more to do with more frustration than entitlement. Boomers and Gen X didn't have such a bleak job market, along with insane education costs, coupled with the death of trade skills and blue collar work.

 

[Smitty]

That's a lazy narrative. Not all spree killers are millenials. Also, more pointedly, almost all millenials aren't spree killers.

Obviously there's a higher concentration of frustrated and entitled males from this era, but I think that has more to do with more frustration than entitlement. Boomers and Gen X didn't have such a bleak job market, along with insane education costs, coupled with the death of trade skills and blue collar work.

By the same token almost all young males exposed to the justified killer worship you talk about also aren't spree killers.

 

[townsend]

By the same token almost all young males exposed to the justified killer worship you talk about also aren't spree killers.

That's true, I think there's a cross-section of influences that cause the smallest fraction of the population to go postal. most males, even the frustrated and entitled ones have something that keeps them from going to that point. I assume some people off themselves, some get layed, some have closer family and friends that keep them more anchored in reality.

There were still spree killers in previous generation, I think the circumstances that led them to snap, has just increased. Not that, just society is to blame, it's just the kind of narcissists that would do this shit were satiated.

 

[Cotton]

That's a lazy narrative. Not all spree killers are millenials. Also, more pointedly, almost all millenials aren't spree killers.

Obviously there's a higher concentration of frustrated and entitled males from this era, but I think that has more to do with more frustration than entitlement. Boomers and Gen X didn't have such a bleak job market, along with insane education costs, coupled with the death of trade skills and blue collar work.

Generations can be stereotyped to most degrees. Mellenials are self-entitled as a whole

 

[townsend]

Generations can be stereotyped to most degrees. Mellenials are self-entitled as a whole

It feels like most generations get that description put on them by the previous one. Whoever's young at the time, probably because each generation wants to recreate the world to suit ourselves. WW2 generation probably got called entitled because they thought they were too good to fight in trenches.

 

[Kbrown]

Now people are saying the guy was seen at the club regularly and used to message people via gay dating apps.

 

[Rev]

So he got turned down??

 

[townsend]

Omar Mateen may not have understood the difference between ISIS, al-Qaeda and Hezbollah

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/omar-mateen-may-not-have-understood-the-difference-between-isis-al-qaeda-and-hezbollah/

 

[Genghis Khan]

None of that stuff matters and misses the point. This guy was clearly disturbed but you can't ignore the fact that he found a conduit for his hate in Islam. I'm not saying it's all Muslims or even a majority but it's way too many and there are way too many morally repugnant elements to Islam that are attractive to sociopaths likethis guy.

 

[townsend]

None of that stuff matters and misses the point. This guy was clearly disturbed but you can't ignore the fact that he found a conduit for his hate in Islam. I'm not saying it's all Muslims or even a majority but it's way too many and there are way too many morally repugnant elements to Islam that are attractive to sociopaths likethis guy.

Radical islamicism is a big issue right now, and it can't be ignored.

But this guy wasn't at all part of it. He wasn't indoctrinated by extremist Muslims, he was an American fuck boy who adopted a flavor of the month to justify some shit he wanted to do anyway. He lived a secular life, he beat his girlfriend, did steroids. He was a violent piece of shit without any Muslim influences.

Here's a good profile of ISIS recruiting tactics from HUFFPo that exactly explains why fuck wad losers like this jerk are the people who get "recruited" by them, more than actual practicing Muslims

The low-hanging fruit for ISIS in its Internet recruiting are people who feel inadequate, disrespected, full of unfulfilled ambitions, angry at real or perceived injustices, and who are blaming other people or institutions for their woes. ISIS supports their grievances and reinforces their belief that the cause of their frustration is outside themselves. By drawing the potential recruits into a fantasy world on the Internet, ISIS channels their blame to “anti-Islamic forces” intent on dominating the world and keeping Muslims down. The only way to alter their dismal situation, ISIS tells these people, is to join the battle to transform the world.

To people struggling with the complexities of the personal decisions they face, ISIS’ simplistic, good-versus-evil narrative can make a life of danger and sacrifice seem worthwhile and even attractive. ISIS offers the chance to join a movement with clearly defined purpose and hope, something that will put meaning into otherwise meaningless lives, absorbing them into a struggle for mighty goals that will lead them to disconnect from families, jobs, and communities.

This was written in 2015.

 

[townsend]

Isis is effectively seeding potential lone gunmen with the mindsets that cause them to go off. It has nothing to do with actual theology, the mindset works with any us vs. them narrative. Islamic vs. AntiIslamic forces. Atheists vs Religion, whites against blacks.

 

[townsend]

Now the Fort Hood shooter, he was an extremist Muslim recruited by radical Islam. Big difference between that and this.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Radical islamicism is a big issue right now, and it can't be ignored.

But this guy wasn't at all part of it. He wasn't indoctrinated by extremist Muslims, he was an American fuck boy who adopted a flavor of the month to justify some shit he wanted to do anyway. He lived a secular life, he beat his girlfriend, did steroids. He was a violent piece of shit without any Muslim influences.

You have read about his own dad, right?

 

[jsmith6919]

You have read about his own dad, right?

He also had made 2 separate trips to Mecca in the last 5 years, went to the same Mosque as Abusalha, and was taking the radical imam Robertson's correspondence course but yeah, he had no Muslim influences

 

[townsend]

He also had made 2 separate trips to Mecca in the last 5 years, went to the same Mosque as Abusalha, and was taking the radical imam Robertson's correspondence course but yeah, he had no Muslim influences

I haven't been able to find anything about him going to Mecca. As far as I can tell he's sought out extremist Islamic organizations praising whoever has managed to make headlines. Because he was an unstable moron.

If a shooter claimed to be part of the bloods, cripps, and Latin Kings. We wouldn't assume he was part of a gang. We'd assume he was a loser with no friends who idealized gang culture but had very little understanding of it.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I haven't been able to find anything about him going to Mecca. As far as I can tell he's sought out extremist Islamic organizations praising whoever has managed to make headlines. Because he was an unstable moron.

If a shooter claimed to be part of the bloods, cripps, and Latin Kings. We wouldn't assume he was part of a gang. We'd assume he was a loser with no friends who idealized gang culture but had very little understanding of it.

It has been reported that he made two trips to Saudi. I don't know what officially constitutes Mecca.

 

[jsmith6919]

I haven't been able to find anything about him going to Mecca. As far as I can tell he's sought out extremist Islamic organizations praising whoever has managed to make headlines. Because he was an unstable moron.

If a shooter claimed to be part of the bloods, cripps, and Latin Kings. We wouldn't assume he was part of a gang. We'd assume he was a loser with no friends who idealized gang culture but had very little understanding of it.

Federal officials have told NBC News that Omar Mateen went to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012. The officials were not able to make any distinction on what he was doing there.

However, a spokesman for Saudi Arabia's Ministry of the Interior told NBC News that Mateen visited to perform the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca known as Umrah.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/2016/06/13/mateen-traveled-to-saudi-arabia-in-2011-and-2012-n2177372