2022 Season | Divisional Round Gameday Chatter Thread | Cowboys @ 49ers | 1/22/23

[data]

yes, bottoming out is a much smarter strategy than making cosmetic changes and maintaining the status quo. as i said earlier, the Carrs and Cousins of the world can only get you so far. they'll gave the fantasy stats and that's it. finding a franchise QB won't be easy, but it's easier than assembling a super team around Dak.

Just slap our thighs harder next season.

 

[Smitty]

So the plan is to suck for an indefinite period of time and try to accumulate as many first round picks as possible and see what happens?

My plan would be to sell off the bad values we have in an effort to seek accumulation of the assets we need to stockpile a talented enough team to win, which we don’t currently have.

It doesn’t mean every veteran has to be traded but yeah there would have to be big changes and if it meant having to willing miss the playoffs for 1-3 years, so be it.

I realize that you're very upset over the last 30 years

Your way has failed for 30 years and you are about to tell me that I’m the one being unreasonable for wanting to do things differently.

and want something to hope for but no general manager in the NFL would ever do something like this with a roster/team that played how we did this season.

Very few would and certainly ours never would, but some GMs do make forward thinking moves. We need to start making some.

Why in the hell would I need to be scared if a ten year no win cycle? We are in the middle of a 30 year cycle with a total of like 5 playoff wins, no championship game appearances, and no end in sight. I’m willing to go through a couple of 4-12s to get a good QB with pedigree in here.

 

[bbgun]

Just slap our thighs harder next season.

does that ahole make videos after losses?

 

[Simpleton]

yes, bottoming out is a much smarter strategy than making cosmetic changes and maintaining the status quo. as i said earlier, the Carrs and Cousins of the world can only get you so far. they'll gave you fantasy stats and that's it. finding a franchise QB won't be easy, but it's easier than assembling a super team around Dak.

If you want to argue that we should purposely tank in a given year where there's a really good QB prospect coming out I'd actually buy that. It literally almost never happens in the NFL but I'd actually be on board with it if your scouting is advanced enough to see a guy coming.

But anything other than that specific plan, or being willing to give up significant assets to trade up 15-20 slots for a targeted guy, is completely unviable.

Everybody loves to say "draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd", when in reality that's like a 10% proposition at absolute best.

 

[Clff15701]

This team needs more speed on offense

And in what world do we have the coaching staff to completely reorient the offense around a run-first QB, similar to what the Ravens did?

What the Eagles are doing right now is a very short-term solution. It may end up in a Super Bowl, it may not, but I do know for damn sure that unless Hurts miraculously develops into a QB who can win with his arm first, second and third, they're going to be right back to a .500 team in about 2 years.

They were lucky enough to get two legit stud WRs And a boatload of picks. We need a better RB speed at Wr and a real qb. Our 40 million dollar qb got outplayed by a 7th round qb.

 

[Clff15701]

We need to stop resigning non elite players to huge contracts. Gallup shouldnt have been resigned and Zeke is done. I’d argue we would have had more points if pollard played the entire half. Zeke was eating plays.

 

[Simpleton]

My plan would be to sell off the bad values we have in an effort to seek accumulation of the assets we need to stockpile a talented enough team to win, which we don’t currently have.

It doesn’t mean every veteran has to be traded but yeah there would have to be big changes and if it meant having to willing miss the playoffs for 1-3 years, so be it.



Your way has failed for 30 years and you are about to tell me that I’m the one being unreasonable for wanting to do things differently.



Very few would and certainly ours never would, but some GMs do make forward thinking moves. We need to start making some.

Why in the hell would I need to be scared if a ten year no win cycle? We are in the middle of a 30 year cycle with a total of like 5 playoff wins, no championship game appearances, and no end in sight. I’m willing to go through a couple of 4-12s to get a good QB with pedigree in here.

My way?

My way is saying that you have no plan to find a QB but hoping that we suck for long enough that one falls in our laps in the draft so you can have something to look forward to because you're so pissed after not making a NFCC for 30 years, which of course means nothing to this current regime of coaches/players.

You effectively want us to tank like an NBA team, which is something that literally no NFL team has ever done in the last 20+ years, which should tell you something about that plan.

I'm actually completely open to taking a QB in the 1st if it's the right guy, someone like Hendon Hooker in the 20's isn't the right guy, trading half a draft for Levis or Richardson isn't the right guy either.

There are at least 20 other teams who would love to trade rosters with us right now, but you want to argue that we should trade Diggs?

Great, whatever.

You want to argue that we shouldn't re-sign Pollard and instead use that money to sign other external FA's?

I can buy it.

But this idea that we can just decide to suck for a few years and draft a future HOF QB, or that we can just snap our fingers and replace Dak with a 3rd rounder, is completely idiotic.

 

[bbgun]

If you want to argue that we should purposely tank in a given year where there's a really good QB prospect coming out I'd actually buy that. It literally almost never happens in the NFL but I'd actually be on board with it if your scouting is advanced enough to see a guy coming.

But anything other than that specific plan, or being willing to give up significant assets to trade up 15-20 slots for a targeted guy, is completely unviable.

Everybody loves to say "draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd", when in reality that's like a 10% proposition at absolute best.

Oh, I don't expect anything to happen. Booze has repeatedly called us the "laziest front office in football" for a reason. Moreover, Dak is too expensive to trade, his market is limited, Jerry hates admitting mistakes, and the heir apparent at QB is nowhere to be seen. We'll get one more year out of him, minimum.

 

[Smitty]

So effectively tank for 5-10 years

How long did it take the Chiefs? I’ll sign up for that. 5-10 years is better than 30, or never.

It's hard to accept because of how bad Jerry is but the disappointments of the last 30 years have very little bearing on this particular roster.

No, that’s untrue. Jerry’s way of building his team has been a failure and continues to be a failure and it’s why his current team is not good enough with no apparent road map to get good enough. Your plan is to just hope we get the breaks in next year’s matchup with a team that has proven to be better than us twice in a row now, or it’s equivalent. You are forgetting your history. This team isn’t going to get the breaks.

And pretty much everybody around the NFL has talked about the 6 teams that were left today (Bills, Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers and us) as the clear best 6 in the league. It's pretty much obvious that this team is one of the best 6-7 in the league right now, that doesn't guarantee anything in terms of results, but you don't just tear that down for a hope and a prayer.

You tear down a team that isn’t good enough and this one isn’t good enough.

And again, you are misinterpreting what the league at large thinks of us.

The "tank forever" plan can be enacted anytime.

It’s not “tank forever” Mr. Overdramatic. Teams enter into and then successfully out of rebuilds all the time. It’s a scare tactic to pretend that oh no if we trade Dak we might never be good again. Even the dark ages around here we were only between Aikman and Romo for like 6 seasons. And in today’s super easy to pass league it would be far less than that if we made a legit, concerted effort to identify and acquire a new, young QB. Which, coincidentally, doesn’t even have to involve cutting or trading Dak, necessarily, but you may have to accept that you are gonna have to spend your capital on things that don’t help you win next year.

 

[Simpleton]

We need to stop resigning non elite players to huge contracts. Gallup shouldnt have been resigned and Zeke is done. I’d argue we would have had more points if pollard played the entire half. Zeke was eating plays.

Gallup was definitely a mistake it seems like, they'll probably end up cutting him after next season. Just a few weeks ago I thought we should try to bring Elliott back for like 1/5th what he's making but at this point I don't think even that's enough.

He has nothing left, when Pollard went out we basically didn't have a running game,

 

[Simpleton]

Oh, I don't expect anything to happen. Booze has repeatedly called us the "laziest front office in football" for a reason. Moreover, Dak is too expensive to trade, his market is limited, Jerry hates admitting mistakes, and the heir apparent at QB is nowhere to be seen. We'll get one more year out of him, minimum.

Of course it'll never happen, I'm just saying I'd buy a very targeted tank as a viable solution. Basically trade Dak at whatever point and have the coaches make sure the players don't completely quit and turn into damaged goods going into future years.

I'd actually somewhat buy that as a solution, even if it quite literally never happens in the league, but just selling off the roster for parts and seeing what happens is a recipe for disaster unless we somehow strike gold at QB while also developing a roster that's respectable enough to keep the young QB from getting killed.

 

[Smitty]

My way?

My way is saying that you have no plan to find a QB but hoping that we suck for long enough that one falls in our laps in the draft so you can have something to look forward to because you're so pissed after not making a NFCC for 30 years, which of course means nothing to this current regime of coaches/players.

You effectively want us to tank like an NBA team, which is something that literally no NFL team has ever done in the last 20+ years, which should tell you something about that plan.

I'm actually completely open to taking a QB in the 1st if it's the right guy, someone like Hendon Hooker in the 20's isn't the right guy, trading half a draft for Levis or Richardson isn't the right guy either.

There are at least 20 other teams who would love to trade rosters with us right now, but you want to argue that we should trade Diggs?

Great, whatever.

You want to argue that we shouldn't re-sign Pollard and instead use that money to sign other external FA's?

I can buy it.

But this idea that we can just decide to suck for a few years and draft a future HOF QB, or that we can just snap our fingers and replace Dak with a 3rd rounder, is completely idiotic.

I never said tank like an NBA team, but yes, I would trade, for example, Diggs and Pollard instead of resigning them.

I would trade out of the first to get future firsts and seconds, etc.

If the result is that I stink for a couple years, so be it. But I’m going to quickly accumulate enough assets and cap space that I won’t be bad for very long, not ten years or whatever silliness you are talking about.

 

[Simpleton]

How long did it take the Chiefs? I’ll sign up for that. 5-10 years is better than 30, or never.



No, that’s untrue. Jerry’s way of building his team has been a failure and continues to be a failure and it’s why his current team is not good enough with no apparent road map to get good enough. Your plan is to just hope we get the breaks in next year’s matchup with a team that has proven to be better than us twice in a row now, or it’s equivalent. You are forgetting your history. This team isn’t going to get the breaks.



You tear down a team that isn’t good enough and this one isn’t good enough.

And again, you are misinterpreting what the league at large thinks of us.



It’s not “tank forever” Mr. Overdramatic. Teams enter into and then successfully out of rebuilds all the time. It’s a scare tactic to pretend that oh no if we trade Dak we might never be good again. Even the dark ages around here we were only between Aikman and Romo for like 6 seasons. And in today’s super easy to pass league it would be far less than that if we made a legit, concerted effort to identify and acquire a new, young QB. Which, coincidentally, doesn’t even have to involve cutting or trading Dak, necessarily, but you may have to accept that you are gonna have to spend your capital on things that don’t help you win next year.

The Chiefs traded up for Mahomes with a team that was making the playoffs every year, then left him on the bench for a year with one of the better offensive designers in league history.

They had a competitive team when they traded up for him.

I said a few posts ago that the only viable solutions are to do some sort of "targeted" tank or to be prepared to trade heavy assets to move up 15-20 slots for a QB in the 1st, which is what the Chiefs did.

But they didn't tear their roster down in the meantime to do so.

 

[Smitty]

Also you are now saying you would accept trading guys like Diggs and Pollard when before you said that no one sells from a team who is in the top tier.

Well, we aren’t in the top tier, but those are two very divergent positions. If you agree that selling off veterans like Diggs and Pollard would be wise, cutting Zeke (when affordable - that’s for the board troll), and trying to accumulate assets instead of just trying to win next year, then our positions are probably reconcilable.

 

[Simpleton]

I never said tank like an NBA team, but yes, I would trade, for example, Diggs and Pollard instead of resigning them.

I would trade out of the first to get future firsts and seconds, etc.

If the result is that I stink for a couple years, so be it. But I’m going to quickly accumulate enough assets and cap space that I won’t be bad for very long, not ten years or whatever silliness you are talking about.

There's a big difference between trading Diggs and letting Pollard leave and actually being bad enough to get an elite QB prospect.

We could do all that and still easily win 10 games next year, and then what?

Your only option is trading up, which is dependent on the whims of the teams in front of you.

And yes, you could easily suck for 10 years if you don't hit on your 1st or 2nd QB dart throw, which is only made more likely by actively trying to be bad to even get one of those dart throws in the first place.

 

[Smitty]

The Chiefs traded up for Mahomes with a team that was making the playoffs every year, then left him on the bench for a year with one of the better offensive designers in league history.

Ok then let’s do that, let’s trade until we have enough assets in a future draft, then trade up and get our QB.

 

[Smitty]

There's a big difference between trading Diggs and letting Pollard leave and actually being bad enough to get an elite QB prospect.

We could do all that and still easily win 10 games next year, and then what?

Your only option is trading up, which is dependent on the whims of the teams in front of you.

And yes, you could easily suck for 10 years if you don't hit on your 1st or 2nd QB dart throw, which is only made more likely by actively trying to be bad to even get one of those dart throws in the first place.

We have sucked for 30 years. I’m not afraid of going 4-12.

 

[Simpleton]

Also you are now saying you would accept trading guys like Diggs and Pollard when before you said that no one sells from a team who is in the top tier.

Well, we aren’t in the top tier, but those are two very divergent positions. If you agree that selling off veterans like Diggs and Pollard would be wise, cutting Zeke (when affordable - that’s for the board troll), and trying to accumulate assets instead of just trying to win next year, then our positions are probably reconcilable.

I wouldn't trade Diggs but I wouldn't argue vehemently against it, especially if we got a 1+2 and change.

But if you're arguing that we need to find the next Mahomes/Burrow, etc., that requires stripping the roster down to basically nothing and hoping we get lucky in the draft or giving up a bunch of picks for a guy when the time is right, which is also extremely unpredictable and unlikely to happen.

Who is the last elite QB besides Mahomes that someone took in the 10-20 range?

You're much more likely to end up with Mac Jones or Justin Fields.

 

[Smitty]

We are a laughing stock. All this talk of “the league respects us as a contender” is nonsense. No it doesn’t. Who thinks that? ESPN puts us high in power rankings for click bait. None of their analysts think we are any good with any consistency. The fans of the NFL at large think we are a joke. There isn’t any analytics that say we are some sleeping giant.

We are somewhere between mediocre playoff team and also ran on any given year. No one respects that.

 

[Smitty]

I wouldn't trade Diggs but I wouldn't argue vehemently against it, especially if we got a 1+2 and change.

But if you're arguing that we need to find the next Mahomes/Burrow, etc., that requires stripping the roster down to basically nothing and hoping we get lucky in the draft or giving up a bunch of picks for a guy when the time is right, which is also extremely unpredictable and unlikely to happen.

Who is the last elite QB besides Mahomes that someone took in the 10-20 range?

You're much more likely to end up with Mac Jones or Justin Fields.

I might have to get two or three Mac Joneses before I find my Pat Mahomes. Worth it.

Better than 30 more years of what we have been doing. This way doesn’t work and isn’t going to work. Dak isn’t good enough. There isn’t any hope.