Cowboys at Lions | Week 8 Game Day Chatter Thread | 10/27/2013

[Deuce]

You are correct. I do think an Andy Reid could come in here and do measurably better with the same offensive talent. But you can also bet that Reid is going to prioritize the OL and DL, which will go a long way.

But for the vast majority of coaches, this team is not a Super Bowl contending roster. Is it 9-7 or 10-6 as opposed to 8-8? I don't think anyone can really say, I'm certainly not convinced. Maybe. But I suspect any of the coaches hired this offseason, minus Reid, would not be doing any better.

The problem with your stance on only finding someone better is most of the candidates are unknown. Maybe they would be better, maybe not. I would certainly take McCoy with how he has the Chargers playing so far.

But what we do know is what Garrett is. He's uninspiring and he's average at best when it comes to being a complete coach and I would go as far as saying he's below average as a situational coach which is the most important gameday aspect. I think we can all agree that average isn't good enough so why not move on and try and find better? If we find someone worse we get worse results and we try again later. But if we hit on the coaching hire, then the sky's the limit for this team.

 

[Smitty]

They gave up an assload of yards yesterday, but I can't bring myself to pin the loss on the defense.

When are the coaches going to learn to slow the frikkin game down? We can not out shoot the elite QBs, mother humping deal with it, asswipes!

For what it's worth, we ran the ball 26 times (averaging 2.4 yards per carry) and passed it 30 times.

That's pretty much as balanced as you are gonna get.

 

[Smitty]

The problem with your stance on only finding someone better is most of the candidates are unknown. Maybe they would be better, maybe not. I would certainly take McCoy with how he has the Chargers playing so far.

But what we do know is what Garrett is. He's uninspiring and he's average at best when it comes to being a complete coach and I would go as far as saying he's below average as a situational coach which is the most important gameday aspect. I think we can all agree that average isn't good enough so why not move on and try and find better? If we find someone worse we get worse results and we try again later. But if we hit on the coaching hire, then the sky's the limit for this team.

I don't need it to be someone with a proven NFL track record but I would want it to be a guy I feel really, really good about, like Jim Harbaugh.

Keep in mind you are getting lesser effectiveness in Dallas than the same hire would be anywhere else because of Jerry.

But you guys keep saying "Oh there's no one you like" but I can name 2 guys in the past 2 offseasons who became coaches who would have fit the bill.

 

[Texas Ace]

He's somewhere in the soft middle between 10 and 20 or so.

I don't think he's a bottom 5-10 worst coach in the league, but he's obviously not in the top 10 either. I'm not sure there's a ton of difference outside those tiers.

10-20?

There is absolutely no way you can say the guy is anywhere near being a top 10 coach nor even 12th or 13th.

He's more in the 25-32 range.

 

[Deuce]

They gave up an assload of yards yesterday, but I can't bring myself to pin the loss on the defense.

When are the coaches going to learn to slow the frikkin game down? We can not out shoot the elite QBs, mother humping deal with it, asswipes!

It wasn't the lack of running, but the playcalling for me. You have the ball and are wasting clock so you go delay handoff? C'mon, nobody is going to be fooled by that and it's a slow developing play. Mix that with their heavy run blitz all game and it was a disaster.

I love the delay handoff play normally, but the usage of it has been horrible. We didn't use it at all early in the year when it would have been useful and then we seemed to rely on it yesterday for some reason.

 

[mcnuttz]

For what it's worth, we ran the ball 26 times (averaging 2.4 yards per carry) and passed it 30 times.

That's pretty much as balanced as you are gonna get.

Seems like I saw one RB screen yesterday.

Very rarely will Romo pwn an elite QB because the defense will give out or he'll make a stupid decision at the end of a game.

The offense should be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Smitty]

10-20?

There is absolutely no way you can say the guy is anywhere near being a top 10 coach nor even 12th or 13th.

He's more in the 25-32 range.

I don't agree at all and there is really not much to support that given how many utterly bad teams there are out there.

And I don't think there is that much difference between coach #11 and coach #19 in this league.

 

[Deuce]

I just looked at the list of active HC's in the league and I counted 19 I would trade Garrett for right now.

And that's not saying I give Garrett credit to be the 20th best HC, I just put him on even ground with someone like Ron Rivera.

 

[kidd]

I have said it many times. Garrett has too high an opinion of himself and our players. He thinks that as long as the players execute, we will win just like the 90's teams did when they were the most talented team in the league. Parody must be lost on this guy.

 

[Deuce]

I have said it many times. Garrett has too high an opinion of himself and our players. He thinks that as long as the players execute, we will win just like the 90's teams did when they were the most talented team in the league. Parody must be lost on this guy.

I don't disagree with him on that a lot of times. Execution is a huge problem for this team. That's what caused the holding penalty to stop the clock late in the game and a slough of other problems.

What is lost on this team is that he's in charge of their execution. If they continue to come up short, he needs to pay for their mistakes.

 

[Smitty]

I just looked at the list of active HC's in the league and I counted 19 I would trade Garrett for right now.

And that's not saying I give Garrett credit to be the 20th best HC, I just put him on even ground with someone like Ron Rivera.

I count at least 15 who are not proven to be currently any better. I think you are picking 19 who you would trade for on the basis that there is some unknown there, not because they are definitely better.

 

[VA Cowboy]

You are correct. I do think an Andy Reid could come in here and do measurably better with the same offensive talent. But you can also bet that Reid is going to prioritize the OL and DL, which will go a long way.

But for the vast majority of coaches, this team is not a Super Bowl contending roster. Is it 9-7 or 10-6 as opposed to 8-8? I don't think anyone can really say, I'm certainly not convinced. Maybe. But I suspect any of the coaches hired this offseason, minus Reid, would not be doing any better.

As long as Jerry runs the team the way he has most of the last 15+ years, with his continual undermining of the HC, letting players go over the coaches head and no real accountability - along with Jerry controlling player acquisition, we'll still never become a solid contender.

Granted a better HC would likely get us 2-3 more wins each year but that would just get us back to the Parcells/early Wade years. And I don't see Jerry giving anyone the power again that he gave Parcells. And even then, BP didn't have full control like Jimmy had.

It'll take Jerry changing or dying and I don't see the former happening anytime soon.

 

[kidd]

I don't disagree with him on that a lot of times. Execution is a huge problem for this team. That's what caused the holding penalty to stop the clock late in the game and a slough of other problems.

What is lost on this team is that he's in charge of their execution. If they continue to come up short, he needs to pay for their mistakes.

My point is that even if we are executing, the other teams are finding ways to stop it. It's not like the 90's, when we lined up in the I and ran it up the gut for 4-7 yds a pop, eventually breaking a long one. Our opponents knew it was coming but couldn't stop it. It's not like that anymore. The other teams are just as talented for the most part and their coaches are able to make adjustments on what Garrett is trying to do.

 

[kidd]

It'll take Jerry changing or dying and I don't see the former happening anytime soon.

This is it in a nutshell.

The only reason I watch anymore is to see if we can get lucky a win despite Jerry and his poor decisions like we did on our 3rd ring with Jimmy's team.

 

[Smitty]

You know who has been surprisingly quiet (in terms of impact) for a few weeks now?

Jason Witten.

 

[Deuce]

I count at least 15 who are not proven to be currently any better. I think you are picking 19 who you would trade for on the basis that there is some unknown there, not because they are definitely better.

Mike Smith, John and Jim Harbaugh, Marvin Lewis, John Fox, Jim Schwartz, Mike McCarthy, Gary Kubiak, Chuck Pagano, Andy Reid, the Hoodie, Sean Payton, Coughlin, Rex Ryan, Mike Tomlin, Mike McCoy, Pete Carroll, Jeff Fisher, Mike Shannahan.

Of them, only McCoy is a projection at this point. Pagano has built a big time team in a short time.

Plus add David Shaw from the college ranks of someone I would take yesterday.

 

[kidd]

You know who has been surprisingly quiet (in terms of impact) for a few weeks now?

Jason Witten.

He has, hasn't he? He's even had a drop or two.

 

[Smitty]

Mike Smith, John and Jim Harbaugh, Marvin Lewis, John Fox, Jim Schwartz, Mike McCarthy, Gary Kubiak, Chuck Pagano, Andy Reid, the Hoodie, Sean Payton, Coughlin, Rex Ryan, Mike Tomlin, Mike McCoy, Pete Carroll, Jeff Fisher, Mike Shannahan.

Of them, only McCoy is a projection at this point. Pagano has built a big time team in a short time.

Plus add David Shaw from the college ranks of someone I would take yesterday.

We're not talking about college ranks, we're talking current NFL head coaches.

I am not including Jim Schwartz, give me a break. McCoy is projection, frankly, the Chargers are like our mirror image.

That means there are 17 left, which, as I said, Garrett is somewhere in that 10-20 range.

What we apparently disagree on is that as you get to the midpoint on that 17, there is really any difference from the bottom of that 17. Kubiak, Marvin Lewis, Pagano, I don't see any of those guys doing better here with this roster. Lewis and Kubiak in particular are two guys who have had middling season after middling season in their respective stops and just managed to stick around without getting fired.

Once you factor in the negative effect of coaching in Dallas, I just don't see a tangible difference. Maybe a couple wins, but nothing worth actual elevation.

 

[L.T. Fan]

As long as Jerry runs the team the way he has most of the last 15+ years, with his continual undermining of the HC, letting players go over the coaches head and no real accountability - along with Jerry controlling player acquisition, we'll still never become a solid contender.

Granted a better HC would likely get us 2-3 more wins each year but that would just get us back to the Parcells/early Wade years. And I don't see Jerry giving anyone the power again that he gave Parcells. And even then, BP didn't have full control like Jimmy had.

It'll take Jerry changing or dying and I don't see the former happening anytime soon.

You may be the most obsessed person I have encountered about Jerry Jones.

 

[Deuce]

We're not talking about college ranks, we're talking current NFL head coaches.

I am not including Jim Schwartz, give me a break. McCoy is projection, frankly, the Chargers are like our mirror image.

That means there are 17 left, which, as I said, Garrett is somewhere in that 10-20 range.

What we apparently disagree on is that as you get to the midpoint on that 17, there is really any difference from the bottom of that 17. Kubiak, Marvin Lewis, Pagano, I don't see any of those guys doing better here with this roster. Lewis and Kubiak in particular are two guys who have had middling season after middling season in their respective stops and just managed to stick around without getting fired.

Once you factor in the negative effect of coaching in Dallas, I just don't see a tangible difference. Maybe a couple wins, but nothing worth actual elevation.

We overrate the negative effects of coaching in Dallas. Just like you underrate the negative effects of the coaching scenarios some of these guys took over. Marvin Lewis has had multiple nice seasons in Cincinnati. The one city that is basically a Dallas clone in terms of horrible managment. Schwartz took over an 0-16 team and built them into multiple playoff teams, including 2 games where he outcoached Garrett to stunning come from behind victories.