The Coronavirus Thread...

[Cotton]

amazing to think there was a time when people debated whether to wash their hands, especially in a medical environment

So many things we take for granted:



linky

Luckily, I’m a germaphobe so this has been my normal for a long damn time. I had a parasite in my body for 9 months which only made my phobia 10 times worse.

 

[Angrymesscan]

My guess is they will have a spike in cases and then it will level off as people start self-policing themselves out of fear. Back to the smoking topic, there is a reason smoking is now demonized. The social construct has made it that way. People/society in this country has made it into a bad thing so they socially corrected the problem. People are already demonizing people for going out and they should. The social construct will correct the problem by social shaming just like it did with smoking.

It was the government’s actions that started the ”demonizing”, no ads at certain times, getting ”R” ratings in films, surgeon general warnings on cigarettes (first written then with pictures), etc.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Your discussion of govt involvement with smoking / non-smoking and seat belts is interesting.

At what point should the govt step in, if at all? Coming from the manufacturer side, are you in favor of govt mandating automobile-makers to provide seat belts? Or allow the free-market to determine if consumers are willing to pay more for autos that provide the seat belt upgrade?

Actually Products Liability would have taken care of that seat belt issue all on it's own.

 

[yimyammer]

Luckily, I’m a germaphobe so this has been my normal for a long damn time. I had a parasite in my body for 9 months which only made my phobia 10 times worse.

wonder if you would have had this phobia if you lived in the Victorian era when no one cared about washing hands or were even aware germs existed

 

[Cotton]

Your discussion of govt involvement with smoking / non-smoking and seat belts is interesting.

At what point should the govt step in, if at all? Coming from the manufacturer side, are you in favor of govt mandating automobile-makers to provide seat belts? Or allow the free-market to determine if consumers are willing to pay more for autos that provide the seat belt upgrade?

This ties into overall safety standards for the sellers/manufacturers — food prep safety standards for kitchen cleanliness, automobile crash safety standards, etc. Eventually, free market would prevail with enough food poisoning and rat/cockroach reviews on Yelp would deter customers from Sheik’s restaurant, but should the govt close his business down for failing cleanliness standards?

Smoking advertisement is banned on television and within ‘x’ feet of schools. Is that justified govt intervention?

Mandated handicap ADA access - parking spots, ramps and elevators?

Those are some good questions. I'm 100% free market, but the food safety questions are valid. There should be a standard in my opinion. Does it come from the federal level or is it left up to the states is a better question. ADA access should be mandated.

 

[Cotton]

wonder if you would have had this phobia if you lived in the Victorian era when no one cared about washing hands or were even aware germs existed

I highly doubt it. That's the cool thing about societal advancement. You learn more as you go. I'd be hard pressed to try to remember the last time I didn't wash my hands at least 10 times in a day. That's what happens when you have Giardia for 9 months. And, let me tell you what that entails. I was shitting at least 12 times a day. Every time I ate I had to go take a shit. I was up a couple of times a night every night with it. It was the most grueling 9 months of my life. Of course, most of it was my fault because I kept putting off going to the doctor. Anyway, it just exacerbated my phobia. But, I'm a lucky one. I can still function with it. There are people that can't even leave their houses because of their fear. /CSB

 

[lostxn]

Well at least we know you will always be objective about political matters.

No, but clearly you are. The lot of you completely give a pass to the moron-in-chief. Empirically speaking, he fucked us. But you can't see that because you're so entrenched in your position. No amount of seeing him misstate, lie or exaggerate will cause you to waver. TDS. LOL.

Enjoy.

 

[L.T. Fan]

No, but clearly you are. The lot of you completely give a pass to the moron-in-chief. Empirically speaking, he fucked us. But you can't see that because you're so entrenched in your position. No amount of seeing him misstate, lie or exaggerate will cause you to waver. TDS. LOL.

Enjoy.

What were you doing in December 2019, January 2020 and February 2020 to get prepared for the pandemic when there wasn’t a case reported until Feb. 28 2020? What was the rest of the Medical community doing during the same time to prepare hospitals and equipment in their facilities that they now say is inadequate? You all were doing the same thing the President was by trying to understand the effects of something that had not even seen happen yet. Your comrades are supposed to be the experts in these areas but it seems to me that not much preparedness was being done during the times you accuse Trump of doing nothing. Why didn’t all of you get your houses in order? We both know the reason.

The medical community was just as surprised and unprepared as was the entire country so turn your finger pointing down for a while and quit blaming instead of looking at your own professions shortcomings. After all your group ultimately is going to have to deal with this problem not the president. He is doing what government does by trying to stave off the economic and welfare aspects of the country so concentrate and deal with matters that are on your front porch now instead of playing politics.

The first virus victim in the US died on Feb. 28. Trump requested of Congress a bill on Feb. 25 to fight the pandemic.

When did your hospital start the process of preparing?

 

[bbgun]

what's good for the goose ..

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[lostxn]

What were you doing in December 2019, January 2020 and February 2020 to get prepared for the pandemic when there wasn’t a case reported until Feb. 28 2020? What was the rest of the Medical community doing during the same time to prepare hospitals and equipment in their facilities that they now say is inadequate? You all were doing the same thing the President was by trying to understand the effects of something that had not even seen happen yet. Your comrades are supposed to be the experts in these areas but it seems to me that not much preparedness was being done during the times you accuse Trump of doing nothing. Why didn’t all of you get your houses in order? We both know the reason.

The medical community was just as surprised and unprepared as was the entire country so turn your finger pointing down for a while and quit blaming instead of looking at your own professions shortcomings. After all your group ultimately is going to have to deal with this problem not the president. He is doing what government does by trying to stave off the economic and welfare aspects of the country so concentrate and deal with matters that are on your front porch now instead of playing politics.

The first virus victim in the US died on Feb. 28. Trump requested of Congress a bill on Feb. 25 to fight the pandemic.

When did your hospital start the process of preparing?

This might come as a surprise to you, but my hospital is run by a massive Trump supporter. Fox News plays on every TV in the ED. As recently as a week ago he said in a meeting that this was no worse than the swine flu. He has told admin people to take masks off if they wear them outside the ED (though I believe he has stopped that). We have PAPRs that we are not allowed to use because they don't want to scare patients. Customer satisfaction is paramount.

As for what I knew, I knew what was reported in the Press. As for what I could do, I'm a line level employee, essentially. I pushed and pushed to get my medical director to start getting our department prepared. I work at 2 facilities and one medical director was on top of it from the start and one wasn't. Now they both are and thank god. We haven't had any sick doctors yet. But if you want to blame me, go nuts.

As for the medical experts and the deep state, left-wing, traitorous press, they have been raising the alarm about this long before we had an outbreak in the States. They have been ridiculed by the administration and right wing press (see video above). Now they are reversing course but not admitting mistakes (except that one goofy guy on Fox News). The CDC and NIH were working on this since January as well. Almost all the things Trump claims he did on the virus in January was the work of the CDC.

Trump got warnings far before we did getting multiple briefings in January.

Intelligence officials were warning Trump about a pandemic as early as January, but they 'couldn't get him to do anything about it'

"The system was blinking red," a US official told The Washington Post, but Trump refused to take action against the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

In late January, he restricted travel to China, that's about it. While downplaying everything and giving false information, he established a working group. Other than that, it wasn't until the end of February that he requested funds from Congress - $2.5 billion. Congress approved $8.6. It wasn't until the middle of March that we declared a National Emergency. That was 2.5 weeks ago.

So yeah, we fucked about for a month, more or less. So yeah, I'm pointing fingers. At the President, at Congress (who also got those briefings), at conservative media for their desire to be on the other side of issues that only have one side, at fucking China, and, to a lesser extent, to Reps voters who just don't seem to get that stupidity and incompetence looks just as bad in Red as it is in Blue. We can do better than this moron. Hell, we can do better than Biden for that matter. But people don't fucking pay attention so I guess we get the government we deserve.

 

[L.T. Fan]

This might come as a surprise to you, but my hospital is run by a massive Trump supporter. Fox News plays on every TV in the ED. As recently as a week ago he said in a meeting that this was no worse than the swine flu. He has told admin people to take masks off if they wear them outside the ED (though I believe he has stopped that). We have PAPRs that we are not allowed to use because they don't want to scare patients. Customer satisfaction is paramount.

As for what I knew, I knew what was reported in the Press. As for what I could do, I'm a line level employee, essentially. I pushed and pushed to get my medical director to start getting our department prepared. I work at 2 facilities and one medical director was on top of it from the start and one wasn't. Now they both are and thank god. We haven't had any sick doctors yet. But if you want to blame me, go nuts.

As for the medical experts and the deep state, left-wing, traitorous press, they have been raising the alarm about this long before we had an outbreak in the States. They have been ridiculed by the administration and right wing press (see video above). Now they are reversing course but not admitting mistakes (except that one goofy guy on Fox News). The CDC and NIH were working on this since January as well. Almost all the things Trump claims he did on the virus in January was the work of the CDC.

Trump got warnings far before we did getting multiple briefings in January.

Intelligence officials were warning Trump about a pandemic as early as January, but they 'couldn't get him to do anything about it'

"The system was blinking red," a US official told The Washington Post, but Trump refused to take action against the coronavirus.

www.businessinsider.com

In late January, he restricted travel to China, that's about it. While downplaying everything and giving false information, he established a working group. Other than that, it wasn't until the end of February that he requested funds from Congress - $2.5 billion. Congress approved $8.6. It wasn't until the middle of March that we declared a National Emergency. That was 2.5 weeks ago.

So yeah, we fucked about for a month, more or less. So yeah, I'm pointing fingers. At the President, at Congress (who also got those briefings), at conservative media for their desire to be on the other side of issues that only have one side, at fucking China, and, to a lesser extent, to Reps voters who just don't seem to get that stupidity and incompetence looks just as bad in Red as it is in Blue. We can do better than this moron. Hell, we can do better than Biden for that matter. But people don't fucking pay attention so I guess we get the government we deserve.

In other words the medical community was and is just as divided as anyone else. If they can’t get it together with the best expertise potential in the nation then how can anyone else be the major whipping boy? It’s just a way to play politics no matter how much anyone might say. It not a matter of protecting it’s just simply saying that there is plenty of blame to go around if that’s how one wants to spend their time. However since that just makes a bad situation worse the why waste time with it. It’s time to get own with the business of getting this problem on the downside rather than continue to put political views ahead of the country. Pelosi needs to have a job in the DC area hospitals and forget about her obsession of overturning elections.

 

[lostxn]

what's good for the goose ..

This might surprise you, but just as Fox News doesn't all speak with the same voice (i.e. the actual news guys often contradict the opinion guys), neither does the MSM. You have a handful of articles here from January or very early February but there were plenty of other articles raising alarm. These articles were a response to those. Nobody was expecting the scope of this pandemic but then it wasn't Anthony Fauci writing these articles.

If you really want to watch somebody in the medical community who was really on top of this, there is this:

MedCram - Medical Lectures Explained Clearly

Sign in to access your MedCram medical lectures. All courses available at this member login portal.

www.medcram.com

This is pretty hard to watch at this time. You basically get a timeline of the outbreak day by day with talks on the basic science as well as articles about treatment. It was really rough for me to go day by day knowing what we know now. It's like watching a car accident in slow speed. That being said, if you can stomach it, there is a ton to be learned. This is not political at all, by the way. Don't think this guy has much interest in that. He likes the science and giving information to partitioners to keep them safe.

 

[lostxn]

In other words the medical community was and is just as divided as anyone else. If they can’t get it together with the best expertise potential in the nation then how can anyone else be the major whipping boy? It’s just a way to play politics no matter how much anyone might say. It not a matter of protecting it’s just simply saying that there is plenty of blame to go around if that’s how one wants to spend their time. However since that just makes a bad situation worse the why waste time with it. It’s time to get own with the business of getting this problem on the downside rather than continue to put political views ahead of the country. Pelosi needs to have a job in the DC area hospitals and forget about her obsession of overturning elections.

Yeah, that it not what I'm saying. The head of the hospital is a businessman not a medical professional. I think that is typical. There is a lot of conflict right now between hospital administrations right now and healthcare workers. Administrators are often ignorant about safety issues, and it makes HCWs feel like they are being treated as disposable. See the protesting HCWs in NYC.

A good example of this was the RNs who took care of the ebola pt at Presby. Two of them ended up contracting ebola because they were not given the proper training or equipment and were essentially thrown to the wolves. HCWs are aware of this case and are pretty suspicious of admin's desire to looks after them. It's kind of like our Tuskegee.

To conclude, nobody should give two shits about the opinion of a hospital administrator unless they are talking about the financial issues.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Yeah, that it not what I'm saying. The head of the hospital is a businessman not a medical professional. I think that is typical. There is a lot of conflict right now between hospital administrations right now and healthcare workers. Administrators are often ignorant about safety issues, and it makes HCWs feel like they are being treated as disposable. See the protesting HCWs in NYC.

A good example of this was the RNs who took care of the ebola pt at Presby. Two of them ended up contracting ebola because they were not given the proper training or equipment and were essentially thrown to the wolves. HCWs are aware of this case and are pretty suspicious of admin's desire to looks after them. It's kind of like our Tuskegee.

To conclude, nobody should give two shits about the opinion of a hospital administrator unless they are talking about the financial issues.

So you are saying the medical community has as much confusion as any other business or political community. Since I have been around the block a time or two, I was actually aware of that. Now the point is I suspect there was a lot of confusion within the political community about the virus thing and the opinion pushers from those who advise the President about these matters were as divided as what your hospital was. I further suspect that since it wasn’t as serious looking in January the advisers didn’t really paint a serious picture. It appears that in mid February the comprehension level had risen in the White House and the President began the process of being deadly serious by ordering funding to fight this problem. Again this was days before the first virus victim. It was also a very short time since the President was in a serious engagement of those trying to impeach him. His priorities were probably considerably different at the time.

 

[lostxn]

So you are saying the medical community has as much confusion as any other business or political community. Since I have been around the block a time or two, I was actually aware of that. Now the point is I suspect there was a lot of confusion within the political community about the virus thing and the opinion pushers from those who advise the President about these matters were as divided as what your hospital was. I further suspect that since it wasn’t as serious looking in January the advisers didn’t really paint a serious picture. It appears that in mid February the comprehension level had risen in the White House and the President began the process of being deadly serious by ordering funding to fight this problem. Again this was days before the first virus victim. It was also a very short time since the President was in a serious engagement of those trying to impeach him. His priorities were probably considerably different at the time.

 

[L.T. Fan]

View attachment 690467

Can I assume then you have nothing more to say?

 

[jsmith6919]