Game Day Chatter Thread | Week 4 | Cowboys @ Saints | 09/29/19

[lostxn]

Not worth hitting the panic button yet.

And it a nutshell, neither would losing to Green Bay, but when we do it and it's back to back losses this weekend, this place is going to implode.

I'm going to that game. I still have PTSD from the last time they played in Dallas (the playoff loss 3 years ago). They better fucking win.

 

[p1_]

I don't always agree with you but I agree on this. The season is a marathon and not a sprint. We need to be in the playoffs and hopefully rolling towards the end of the season. We just need to find our groove again. We do that and these losses don't matter.

Ultimately this team will be judged on a presumed playoff run, with a minimum of 2 wins.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Ultimately this team will be judged on a presumed playoff run, with a minimum of 2 wins.

Yep, I don't want to take the playoffs for granted. We need to accomplish that first. But ultimately if we do nothing in the playoffs it's just more of the same.

 

[Smitty]

I'm going to that game. I still have PTSD from the last time they played in Dallas (the playoff loss 3 years ago). They better fucking win.

If they beat the Packers there is no reason not to still be full speed ahead on expectations for the season. We'll be 4-1 and looking at 5-1 after the Jets most likely.

Even if not the season should still be in relatively good shape at 4-2 if we beat the Jets.... division title still within grasp, etc.

If the wheels fall off, then Garrett won't be here either, so everyone wins.

 

[Angrymesscan]

Same goes for “losing to inferior opponents.” Have you done a study on this?

Since 2011 Cowboys are 57-26-0 as Favorites. Good for 10th place...

 

[UncleMilti]

Sturm breaks down a lot of stuff, but I also don't hear him sitting here saying Garrett "does nothing," or he's "a clueless idiot."

And he doesn't say that because he knows his breakdowns wouldn't substantiate that Garrett is anything worse than an average head coach if he extended them league wide. Which is once again the entire genesis of this debate: I push back on non-factual, anecdotal, unsubstantiated griping about "all the" x, y, or z that Garrett does, which is not catalogued in comparison to other coaches for context. Because without that, it's pointless Joe Fan complaining on spec. I watch a lot of sports too: I hear fans complaining about the head coaches of literally every team I follow in every sport. Even Roy fucking Williams at UNC. People think he's a bad game day coach or some nonsense. Yeah, maybe compared to like 2 other Hall of Famers.

Of course Sturm's data makes the argument we could improve. Which is why I've said again and again I'm in favor of a targeted upgrade.

Sturm is a paid professional needing access to Cowboys stuff. He’s not going to call Garrett a fucking idiot.

But many times he has publicly questioned Garrett’s grasp of the team, the play calling, and the trend of losing games they shouldn’t lose based on data he’s put together.

 

[UncleMilti]

On another note....the refereeing in the Saints game was horrendous. If we see that against the Packers, the Cowboys are toast. It will be a monumental task beating Rodgers by himself. If the refs help, it’s a lost cause.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If they beat the Packers there is no reason not to still be full speed ahead on expectations for the season. We'll be 4-1 and looking at 5-1 after the Jets most likely.

Even if not the season should still be in relatively good shape at 4-2 if we beat the Jets.... division title still within grasp, etc.

If the wheels fall off, then Garrett won't be here either, so everyone wins.

Yeah 4-2 heading into the Eagles game still allows us to control our destiny fairly easily. Any way you slice it that Eagles game is probably the most important.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

On another note....the refereeing in the Saints game was horrendous. If we see that against the Packers, the Cowboys are toast. It will be a monumental task beating Rodgers by himself. If the refs help, it’s a lost cause.

I've never seen offensive pass interference called so ridiculously. On the flip side of that they were given a lot of freedom to grasp, hold and interfere with Cooper.

 

[Smitty]

Sturm is a paid professional needing access to Cowboys stuff. He’s not going to call Garrett a fucking idiot.

But many times he has publicly questioned Garrett’s grasp of the team, the play calling, and the trend of losing games they shouldn’t lose based on data he’s put together.

Of course he's not literally going to put "fucking idiot" in print, but he doesn't need to kowtow. Even Bryan Broaddus has said on team radio the team should move on from Garrett (in the past he's said this, not this week or this year or anything).

And it can be the totally legitimate position that one takes that you think we should replace Garrett just because he's average. That may be the position Sturm takes.

But what he doesn't do is engage in all the hyperbole that you and others like you do. Because he doesn't have the numbers to make the case for such superlatives as "the worst."

But then, if you and others on this board argued that "Garrett should be replaced because he's a decent head coach but we really need a top level guy in here," then you'd get very little resistance. I might not agree, but there wouldn't be the pages and pages of debating.

It's when it sinks to unproveable generalities like "He got outcoached AGAIN" and "we always lose to lesser teams." Nope. No we don't. And you have presented exactly zero evidence of it in relation to other teams and coaches.

What you've got is a lot of pent up frustration at going on three decades of Jerry failure to build a Super Bowl winner. And that makes sense. But unfortunately, the easy narrative is to place all the blame at the head coach's feet since he's the most replaceable, but in this case, it's not as warranted as its made to seem.

 

[Smitty]

Since 2011 Cowboys are 57-26-0 as Favorites. Good for 10th place...

Huh, not so terrible.

Link to these numbers?

 

[Angrymesscan]

Huh, not so terrible.

Link to these numbers?

59-32 since 2010

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2010&sc=is_fav

 

[UncleMilti]

Of course he's not literally going to put "fucking idiot" in print, but he doesn't need to kowtow. Even Bryan Broaddus has said on team radio the team should move on from Garrett (in the past he's said this, not this week or this year or anything).

And it can be the totally legitimate position that one takes that you think we should replace Garrett just because he's average. That may be the position Sturm takes.

But what he doesn't do is engage in all the hyperbole that you and others like you do. Because he doesn't have the numbers to make the case for such superlatives as "the worst."

But then, if you and others on this board argued that "Garrett should be replaced because he's a decent head coach but we really need a top level guy in here," then you'd get very little resistance. I might not agree, but there wouldn't be the pages and pages of debating.

It's when it sinks to unproveable generalities like "He got outcoached AGAIN" and "we always lose to lesser teams." Nope. No we don't. And you have presented exactly zero evidence of it in relation to other teams and coaches.

What you've got is a lot of pent up frustration at going on three decades of Jerry failure to build a Super Bowl winner. And that makes sense. But unfortunately, the easy narrative is to place all the blame at the head coach's feet since he's the most replaceable, but in this case, it's not as warranted as its made to seem.

I’m sure there are stats to back up the fact that Garrett normally loses to teams we shouldn’t lose to. I’m too busy to look them up, or actually know where to find them. But I’m not the only one who has claimed it. Plenty of guys who dig into numbers and report on that kind of thing have voiced it too.

At the end of the day anyone who watches the Cowboys games knows Garrett shits the bed in big games. If he didn’t, wouldn’t we have won more than a couple playoff games? Wouldn’t he have been to the playoffs more times? Would he not be signed to another contract? Is he the WORST? No, you can argue that for sure. Is he below average, or even average? Sure if that makes you feel better to phrase it that way. He’s 40% in the playoffs.

 

[NoDak]

Schmitty, it's pretty obvious that you're a Garrett shill. You're in here admonishing people for the things they are saying about him, how they don't know the game plans, what in game adjustments are made, etc... Always jumping to his defense whenever something ill is said about him.

Yet you said those very same things about Wade Phillips. Do you claim to know all those things when he was here? Or did you just not like him and what was happening on the field with the team at the time?

 

[p1_]

just to show you how win loss records can be misleading, Jason and Jimmy have almost identical career coaching records.

 

[UncleMilti]

Schmitty, it's pretty obvious that you're a Garrett shill. You're in here admonishing people for the things they are saying about him, how they don't know the game plans, what in game adjustments are made, etc... Always jumping to his defense whenever something ill is said about him.

Yet you said those very same things about Wade Phillips. Do you claim to know all those things when he was here? Or did you just not like him and what was happening on the field with the team at the time?

Oh Jesus. Look what you just started.

 

[p1_]

Oh Jesus. Look what you just started.

 

[NoDak]

Oh Jesus. Look what you just started.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

just to show you how win loss records can be misleading, Jason and Jimmy have almost identical career coaching records.

To some that's just evidence of Garrett's greatness. But if you watched both guys the difference is obvious.

 

[p1_]

To some that's just evidence of Garrett's greatness. But if you watched both guys the difference is obvious.

Playoffs, NFC Title and Super Bowl victories aside....