The Great Police Work Thread

[Jiggyfly]

Do you see why I quit trying? Everyone who has never done the job is an expert in what we are trained to do, or how people behave the way they do, or anything else that ever has anything to do with police work. I can't wait until we start a "great doctor work thread" or a "great lawyer work thread". then (except for those that actually are) the real medical and legal pros will come out.

Are you really advocating that a person coming or charging at you is a justifiable use of deadly force?

What happened to the Physical control maneuvers aspect of arrest?

Are you really saying a person who has yet to physically engage any of 3 officers should automatically be seen as life threatening?

 

[Jiggyfly]

The U.S. Supreme Court established the standard of ”objective reasonableness” where the use of deadly force applied by an officer could be evaluated by the ”reasonableness at the moment.” The Court ruled that the evaluation of the decision to use force should be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, not with the benefit of retrospective analysis.

I notice you didn't bold this part.

What was reasonable about shooting a guy who has not even touched any of the officers?

There is a physical control aspect that is needed before deadly force is used.

Using your logic any drunken guy who has to physically restrained is a candidate to be shot 1st.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Yeah, let him get right up on you and then try like an arm bar or something. This also allows the suspect to get within reach of your firearm. Sound tactics.

What?

That is exactly what officers are trained to do, why aren't people shot every time they get into a scuffle with an officer?

It's abundantly clear you have no idea of police training and think a officer never has to physically confront a suspect.

I guess in your mind if a person resist arrest in any way it's ok to pop a cap in them.

 

[Jiggyfly]

For you Iamtdg.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/pages/continuum.aspx

The Use-of-Force Continuum
Most law enforcement agencies have policies that guide their use of force. These policies describe a escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation. This continuum generally has many levels, and officers are instructed to respond with a level of force appropriate to the situation at hand, acknowledging that the officer may move from one part of the continuum to another in a matter of seconds.
An example of a use-of-force continuum follows:

Officer Presence — No force is used. Considered the best way to resolve a situation.
The mere presence of a law enforcement officer works to deter crime or diffuse a situation.
Officers' attitudes are professional and nonthreatening.

Verbalization — Force is not-physical.
Officers issue calm, nonthreatening commands, such as "Let me see your identification and registration."
Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move."

Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation.
Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.

Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation.
(See Deciding When and How to Use Less-Lethal Devices. )
Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person.
Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray).
Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance.

Lethal Force — Officers use lethal weapons to gain control of a situation. Should only be used if a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
Officers use deadly weapons such as firearms to stop an individual's actions.

There was no attempt to use physical control that's the problem here.

 

[Cotton]

So I guess the tazer being tried first wasn't an attempt at physical control now. You go way overboard in your hatred of cops, Jiggy.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Do you see why I quit trying? Everyone who has never done the job is an expert in what we are trained to do, or how people behave the way they do, or anything else that ever has anything to do with police work. I can't wait until we start a "great doctor work thread" or a "great lawyer work thread". then (except for those that actually are) the real medical and legal pros will come out.

The difference is I have no problem saying a bad lawyer is just a bad lawyer. There isn't an inherent brotherhood among attorneys that makes us feel the need to justify each others actions. In fact it's a competitive industry so instead I feel like I need to be better then the other lawyer.

I deal with the same criminals you and other officers deal with on a daily basis. I understand how crazy some can be. I just happen to think if you deal with them in the correct manner you prevent a lot of the violence officers do face. Violence that often escalates into people being shot and killed. The problem in my opinion is that some officers have too much pride to take the verbal abuse in order to keep a situations calm.

 

[L.T. Fan]

The difference is I have no problem saying a bad lawyer is just a bad lawyer. There isn't an inherent brotherhood among attorneys that makes us feel the need to justify each others actions. In fact it's a competitive industry so instead I feel like I need to be better then the other lawyer.

I deal with the same criminals you and other officers deal with on a daily basis. I understand how crazy some can be. I just happen to think if you deal with them in the correct manner you prevent a lot of the violence officers do face. Violence that often escalates into people being shot and killed. The problem in my opinion is that some officers have too much pride to take the verbal abuse in order to keep a situations calm.

Your dealings with them is in a completely different environment.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Your dealings with them is in a completely different environment.

Absolutely, my clients don't feel like I'm about to butt rape them when I run into them. But maybe the problem is people feel like every time they encounter an officer they are about to be butt raped.

 

[Cotton]

Absolutely, my clients don't feel like I'm about to butt rape them when I run into them. But maybe the problem is people feel like every time they encounter an officer they are about to be butt raped.

I don't know a single person in my life that feels that way when they run into a cop. Not one.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't know a single person in my life that feels that way when they run into a cop. Not one.

You need to get out more then.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Absolutely, my clients don't feel like I'm about to butt rape them when I run into them. But maybe the problem is people feel like every time they encounter an officer they are about to be butt raped.

Not me.

 

[NoDak]

I deal with the same criminals you and other officers deal with on a daily basis.

Nice.

 

[NoDak]

Absolutely, my clients don't feel like I'm about to butt rape them when I run into them. But maybe the problem is people feel like every time they encounter an officer they are about to be butt raped.

Damn. This is even better.

 

[Cotton]

You need to get out more then.

Or maybe you need to get some better friends.

 

[boozeman]

Cops and butt rape never seemed to go together until now.

 

[townsend]

I don't know a single person in my life that feels that way when they run into a cop. Not one.

If I may get all tumblr on you. That's called privilege.

Go live in Ferguson where federal employees are dragged out of their cars by cops. Where you can be beaten mercilessly by cops and charged for bleeding on their uniforms. Where one third of the population has a warrant out for there arrest, and police chiefs say shit like "Let's make our jail cells a little more colorful today."

New York where an entire justice system is in place for oppression of poor blacks. Where you can spend years in jail for not admitting to a crime you didn't commit. Where being big is reason enough to choke a man to death.

Go to Baltimore where just calling the cops can likely end in you being assaulted by the cops, and running from the cops means they're allowed to beat you to death.

Go to Cleveland where being a black child with a toy is excuse to gun him down in cold blood.

Go to Texas where a man with pepper spray, a tazer and a gun can feel threatened by a lit cigarette.

 

[Cotton]

Damn. This is even better.

I have never in my life been slighted by a cop. Sure, there are some that can be assholes, but to feel like every time you encounter one you are about to be "butt raped" is stupid. You either are doing something wrong which leads you to feel that way, or you have had experiences in the past that you created which caused the negative interaction. It's rare that cops cause the negative interaction. It's that simple.

 

[Cotton]

If I may get all tumblr on you. That's called privilege.

Go live in Ferguson where federal employees are dragged out of their cars by cops. Where you can be beaten mercilessly by cops and charged for bleeding on their uniforms. Where one third of the population has a warrant out for there arrest, and police chiefs say shit like "Let's make our jail cells a little more colorful today."

New York where an entire justice system is in place for oppression of poor blacks. Where you can spend years in jail for not admitting to a crime you didn't commit. Where being big is reason enough to choke a man to death.

Go to Baltimore where just calling the cops can likely end in you being assaulted by the cops, and running from the cops means they're allowed to beat you to death.

Go to Cleveland where being a black child with a toy is excuse to gun him down in cold blood.

Go to Texas where a man with pepper spray, a tazer and a gun can feel threatened by a lit cigarette.

Excuse me while I get all realistic on you. In 99% of cop interactions the reason for the call is caused by the person that ends up "running into the cop".

Oh, and you keep using race, which is stupid. Again, being realistic, more black people are in jail more often because they are the ones committing the crimes to begin with. That's realistic. It's not a very PC thing to say, but I don't give a shit, because it's true. Sure, some are targeted in high crime areas, because, well, those are high crime areas. Tell your cousin to stop robbing convenience stores and maybe the cops attention will divert to a different area.

Sorry if this nicks your sensible white guilt sensibilities, but it absolutely is life as we know it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I have never in my life been slighted by a cop. Sure, there are some that can be assholes, but to feel like every time you encounter one you are about to be "butt raped" is stupid. You either are doing something wrong which leads you to feel that way, or you have had experiences in the past that you created which caused the negative interaction. It's rare that cops cause the negative interaction. It's that simple.

I don't know if you are naive or if you are just lucky enough to live in an area with a police department that does everything the way I think they should. Unfortunately I live in an area where evidence is "lost" on a regular basis. And by that I mean the drugs the officers find somehow never make it to the testing facility or people's personal belongings regularly disappear out of evidence. Like I said, maybe you just need to get out a little. Maybe you're just living in a bubble of a perfect world that most other people don't get to enjoy.

 

[townsend]

Excuse me while I get all realistic on you. In 99% of cop interactions the reason for the call is caused by the person that ends up "running into the cop".

Oh, and you keep using race, which is stupid. Again, being realistic, more black people are in jail more often because they are the ones committing the crimes to begin with. That's realistic. It's not a very PC thing to say, but I don't give a shit, because it's true. Sure, some are targeted in high crime areas, because, well, those are high crime areas. Tell your cousin to stop robbing convenience stores and maybe the cops attention will divert to a different area.

Sorry if this nicks your sensible white guilt sensibilities, but it absolutely is life as we know it.

Why do more blacks commit crimes? Is it because of genetics?

Maybe because we have multi-tiered systems of exclusion and extortion set up to prey on people who can't afford to litigate.

You know how I mentioned above how a ridiculous percentage of Ferguson residents have warrants out for their arrest? Most of them are for ridiculous tickets that the residents can't afford to pay.

We have a pipeline set up to funnel black folks into prisons thanks to cycles of poverty, desperation, and crime.

That doesn't excuse black criminals for the violent crimes they commit. But it also doesn't excuse violent crimes perpetrated against them by cops either.