The Great Police Work Thread

[fortsbest]

And these folks shot rot in jail Bipo. Just like the lawyer and doctor down the street doing the same thing , or the numerous teachers that have been caught in the DFW area recently F'n around with students. It's no different.

 

[fortsbest]

I watched quite a bit of Simon and Simon growing up, so I don't really need go for a ride along.

What about Adam-12 and Dragnet? Did you watch them too?

 

[L.T. Fan]

A lot of people pretend to know everything about your profession but I am not one of them. I will say however I feel safer knowing there is a group of individuals who are on the lookout for those who would do harm to society by their lawless actions. Keep up the good work and with it my thanks as well. I have the same regard for the law enforcement professionals as I do for the military. By in large the majority are dedicated to protecting and serving. My thanks to you for your service.

 

[Jiggyfly]

First of all almost every time you write something here it's incredibly condescending. Secondly, you assume that there is a need for them to behave anyway than they normally do because of your cynical attitude. I find i to believe that you worked in the CJ system alongside cops on a regular basis and have such a poor opinion of them. Thirdly, you can gain a little perspective and insight from a ride along even if things aren't super exciting but again, you wouldn't know if you didn't try. And frankly just because you think you do doesn't mean everyone else thinks they are all-knowing about other people's jobs. Get off your damn high horse pretending you know exactly what police work entails. You particularly are the primary person posting all this stuff here exactly as I was talking about.

I don't have a poor opinion of cops, please go back and find a post of me saying cops are bad or anything close to that.

I have a problem with cops getting the automatic benefit of the doubt and then people like you making exscuses for questionable behavior by saying stuff like Sandra Bland's cigarette could be taken as a dangerous weapon.

You are hypersensitive to any critique of cops and IMO that is an example of why some bad cops get away with abuses, they know the dapartments will bend over backwards to protect them.

For example the shooting in SC and in Cincy were both cases of cops covering for each other until video was shown, I guess in your mind those were outliers I strongly disagree.

So it seems you have a problem with me posting examples of police misconduct, why is that would you rather ignore the problem or try and shine a light so some cops will think 1st before using deadly force on unarmed civilians.

I have not once seen you post anything critical about police who have done things that are without a doubt against regulations or just flat out wrong, but any grey area and there you are offering every possible reason why the act could be justified, high horse indeed.

 

[Cotton]

A lot of people pretend to know everything about your profession but I am not one of them. I will say however I feel safer knowing there is a group of individuals who are on the lookout for those who would do harm to society by their lawless actions. Keep up the good work and with it my thanks as well. I have the same regard for the law enforcement professionals as I do for the military. By in large the majority are dedicated to protecting and serving. My thanks to you for your service.

100% agreed. Very well said.

 

[fortsbest]

I don't have a poor opinion of cops, please go back and find a post of me saying cops are bad or anything close to that.

I have a problem with cops getting the automatic benefit of the doubt and then people like you making exscuses for questionable behavior by saying stuff like Sandra Bland's cigarette could be taken as a dangerous weapon.

I don't have a problem with cops getting the benefit of the doubt because that is what is supposed to happen with every citizen in this country. My problem is with those who would seek to deny police officers the same right as many of the articles posted about police incidents do. Cops are no more above the law than citizens, but should also be given the same benefit of the doubt and aren't by media and politicians whose politics it benefits. And then in cases where all is said and done and a cop is found to be innocent or righteous, we never here that broadcast in media other than to say to was a cover up. As a cop when someone gets off that I know for a fact was guilty, I suck it up and say there will be another day and another crime they will commit.

You are hypersensitive to any critique of cops and IMO that is an example of why some bad cops get away with abuses, they know the dapartments will bend over backwards to protect them.

For example the shooting in SC and in Cincy were both cases of cops covering for each other until video was shown, I guess in your mind those were outliers I strongly disagree.

I am not hypersensitive to criticism of police but in this group there is a thread with nearly 1900 posts dedicated to the topic and frankly I'm the only one here that has the experience to offer any insight as to what might have happened. It may be a defense it may not, but it is experiential insight. Sometimes I may even be wrong. But in each and every case you and some others are right on top of the situation proclaiming the cops are bad and they are being covered for and they should lose their jobs etc, and 9 times outa 10 I say wait and see and that this or that could have been an alternative. I did say the SC video looked terrible for the officer but....was that all of it, was there more to see?

So it seems you have a problem with me posting examples of police misconduct, why is that would you rather ignore the problem or try and shine a light so some cops will think 1st before using deadly force on unarmed civilians.
I have not once seen you post anything critical about police who have done things that are without a doubt against regulations or just flat out wrong, but any grey area and there you are offering every possible reason why the act could be justified, high horse indeed.

I have commented on a few of the things posted that looked really bad for the officers. You are conveniently forgetting or ignoring it. I do criticize bad officers like the thing Bipo just posted a bit above this. You aren't shining a light on anything, you are posting news articles that report incidents of police shootings that will be investigated and adjudicated if needed. But where's the thread about teachers molesting students, or the thread about blacks killing blacks and the lack of politicians of any side decrying that? IN Chicago alone so far in 2015 there have been nearly 315 murders mostly committed by blacks against blacks. where's the media and political and your outcry?
Yes it bugs me a little that you post only negative stuff with no positive things that any police do because I really don't think you are anti-police but you sure do project that. Lastly, I feel a bit persecuted by the thread and feel the need to offer some defense because it is a job I have done proudly and well for 24 years plus and know we don't always get the public benefit of the doubt because it isn't fashionable to support the police anymore. That truly isn't the case here in Fort Worth because we have a greatly deserved good relationship with our citizens. I feel badly for those of you that live in areas where that apparently isn't the case.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I did say the SC video looked terrible for the officer but....was that all of it, was there more to see?

Looked bad?

Any more to see?

Really?

What more do you need to see other than the fact that the guy was running away and the officer shot him multiple times in the back?

This is what I have been talking about the entire time, a unarmed civilian was running away and was shot in the back yet you still are looking for reasons to justify it.

And frankly that scares the shit out of me because it confirms my beliefs of how departments look at these things.

 

[fortsbest]

So out of the whole thing I wrote, you pick that to comment on. It looked bad. The guy was in the wrong. Where did I look to justify it? I simply posed was there more to see of the video. What led up to the officer shooting the guy is still a legitimate question. Police don't walk around just looking for people to shoot you idiot. But your take on the whole thing seems to indicate that we do. What moronic officer, especially one that was a veteran would just take off and shoot someone in the back for no reason. You see, I'm not looking for justification, I want to know the circumstance that led up to this officers terrible decision. One, it helps other officers avoid doing it, and two, it may offer insight to keep it from happening again. You on the other hand just see the video and declare there is no value in any investigation of circumstance, you just want the officer crucified. It may well be that he deserves it, but there still needs to be investigation and he still has the right to due process. Then he can get what is deserved and we can all feel better about it. Your last statement tells me everything I need to know about your feelings toward police and I'm sad to admit I was wrong in my previous post. Your selective interpretation of everything that is written that doesn't agree with your bent is really scary dude. But hey, keep finding articles about how the police are the enemy in this country because it gives you something to do. You fit right in with the "black lives matter", "no peace, no justice", "hands up, don't shoot" crowd."

 

[Clay_Allison]

I don't think I ever said that my job isn't safer sir Clay, I know it is. And our society is generally safer as well, but in the areas where these things are happening it isn't necessarily so. Texas is really a whole other animal in that regard. The types of criminals citizens and police are dealing with are different than those causing problems 20 years ago.


I never said that applied to you either. I've told you tome and again I wouldn't want your job for any salary, but your controlled environment is a little different than dealing with folk out in the wild as well. You have a skewed perspective regarding what police do in the field because of whatever bitterness a resentment you have that has been discussed before, but remember that they had to be dealt with out here before they got to you so get over yourself.

Hey, it just pissed me off that you said I needed a ride along to know what cops have to deal with. You know if someone punches you in the face they are looking at serious time, if they punch me no prosecutor will pick up the case and press charges unless I spend a night in the hospital. I don't really want to be a cop either because I like leaving my job behind me when the gates close as I'm walking to my car. I just don't like being told I don't know what it's like to be in a scary situation.

I've never blamed the rank and file of cops for the vast majority of problems. Politicians and police chiefs make the policies that put cops in a kill or be killed situation and not always for the best reasons. I'm not backing down on the point that we can lower the number of deaths by going about things a different way, waiting for backup more, and training people not to provoke violent encounters by being confrontational and aggressive.

When my criminal justice professor (who worked for the California Narcotics Bureau) went up for his PHD in communications, the professor who was supervising him said "I don't see how communication has anything to do with Law Enforcement." You should know better, I'm sure you do know better, but you don't act like it. I've talked dozens of irate people out of fights by being reasonable and speaking in a normal tone of voice and I'm sure you've done the same. But you have a natural tendency to defend assholes and hotheads. Yeah, I've been there. I've backed up guys whose actions I didn't agree with, but in my case no one died. At some point you should reflect back on the cops you have worked with that you knew were not doing their jobs and stop saying "I need to defend these guys.".

More than that. We have both had terrible supervisors, people who were stupid or dangerous or dirty or drunk and we don't need to defend their policies.

 

[Jiggyfly]

So out of the whole thing I wrote, you pick that to comment on. It looked bad. The guy was in the wrong. Where did I look to justify it? I simply posed was there more to see of the video. What led up to the officer shooting the guy is still a legitimate question. Police don't walk around just looking for people to shoot you idiot. But your take on the whole thing seems to indicate that we do. What moronic officer, especially one that was a veteran would just take off and shoot someone in the back for no reason. You see, I'm not looking for justification, I want to know the circumstance that led up to this officers terrible decision. One, it helps other officers avoid doing it, and two, it may offer insight to keep it from happening again. You on the other hand just see the video and declare there is no value in any investigation of circumstance, you just want the officer crucified. It may well be that he deserves it, but there still needs to be investigation and he still has the right to due process. Then he can get what is deserved and we can all feel better about it. Your last statement tells me everything I need to know about your feelings toward police and I'm sad to admit I was wrong in my previous post. Your selective interpretation of everything that is written that doesn't agree with your bent is really scary dude. But hey, keep finding articles about how the police are the enemy in this country because it gives you something to do. You fit right in with the "black lives matter", "no peace, no justice", "hands up, don't shoot" crowd."

Once again you are assigning things to me that do not fit, I have never said or implied that cops are just looking for people to shoot, show me one instance or GTFO.

Why does it matter so much to you what led up to shooting?

What in your mind could have happened to not make this a crime?

 

[townsend]

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/8/american-devotion-to-order-over-justice-must-end.html?utm_content=opinion&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Long article, I'll post a selection.

Last summer, during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, I stood on the sidewalk in Times Square while my husband took my kids to use a restroom in a nearby restaurant. We had just left a rally for Palestinian children killed in Gaza. As I waited alone, a police officer monitoring the rally ordered me to move. I did, stepping back towards the restaurant wall. This was not good enough for him. In seconds, he flipped me, pushed me against the wall, pressed his body on mine and while I was handcuffed, said I was resisting arrest. Photos later revealed his arms bulging with the ferocity of the arrest.

As a lawyer, I have done “Know Your Rights” trainings on this very police tactic: bootstrapping charges to justify arrest. As I was being arrested, I began to repeat in a monotone voice, “I am not resisting arrest,” to which the officer responded, “Shut your mouth.” When I objected to him going through my purse and pulling out my photo I.D., he said, “I can do whatever I want, because you are my prisoner.” At that moment it was true. It didn’t matter that I had been appointed in January 2014 as top counsel to New York City’s Public Advocate, the first Bangladeshi-American to reach that level of city government and one of few Muslim Americans in the newly elected administration.

From precinct cell to central booking to arraignment, I was in custody for nine hours. I observed women who could not afford counsel, barely getting a minute to meet with their under-resourced public defenders, women who could not go home to their children because they could not afford bail or women accepting any plea just to get out. They were forced to negotiate away their rights. One of these women advised me, “Don’t ask for medical attention. You will be in here longer.” So I didn’t, trading away my rights for freedom.

The city adamantly refused to include any police reform in the settlement, not even the basic suggestions I had made: a town hall meeting with the mayor for those affected by policing or a meeting with the police captain of the precinct in which I was held in custody. I was only offered money. I knew my rights, but they were not of use to me. Weighing the options, I settled, giving up what should be a basic civic right — to be heard by those elected to serve and those hired to protect us. I am reminded again of what the officer said to me: Shut your mouth.

Sitting in jail last summer, tired from the day’s fasting, I thought about Martin Luther King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail,” in which he expresses frustration with white moderates because they are devoted to order, rather than justice. This remains true today. We have constructed a democracy that is invested in order at the expense of people; we see it in the ordering of elections, in the way politicians come for your vote, in the legal cases that follow “procedure.” Despite all this process, the outcomes are heartbreaking. The families of police brutality victims aren’t heard because of non-indictments. The federal Justice Department repeatedly finds little wrongdoing by police. Elected officials refuse to meet with communities affected by corrupt policing. Jolting the system awakens us from the hollow rituals of rights and democracy.

Obviously NYC is the worst of the worst. But this is a perfect instance of a policeman given carte blanche to arrest a woman entirely because he hated her skin color/religion/nationality and was never forced to see punishment for what was an unwarranted assault and kidnapping.

More than a rote "Police are bad", "Some Police are bad" "Pockets of police are bad" I think the most important thing to realize is the system is bad, for not punishing criminals in cops clothing.

 

[fortsbest]

Hey, it just pissed me off that you said I needed a ride along to know what cops have to deal with. You know if someone punches you in the face they are looking at serious time, if they punch me no prosecutor will pick up the case and press charges unless I spend a night in the hospital. I don't really want to be a cop either because I like leaving my job behind me when the gates close as I'm walking to my car. I just don't like being told I don't know what it's like to be in a scary situation.

I would think your experiences would eliminate the need for you to do this, but most others here are not the exception. My only knowledge of what you do is from dropping off prisoners at teh county and watching them deal with them in the booking process. And I'm totally sure that isn't even a smidge of what goes on in your circumstance.

I've never blamed the rank and file of cops for the vast majority of problems. Politicians and police chiefs make the policies that put cops in a kill or be killed situation and not always for the best reasons. I'm not backing down on the point that we can lower the number of deaths by going about things a different way, waiting for backup more, and training people not to provoke violent encounters by being confrontational and aggressive.

Training is definitely an answer to help lower the numbers of deaths and shootings and just because a shooting was justified does not mean it couldn't have been prevented. And again I say, every officer would rather not shoot someone than do it. I have never and will never say that. Every officer I know is all about getting as much training as possible but sadly ours and most police budgets are lacking the ability to fund it. I have on numerous occasions paid for training the city should have rightfully taken care of.

When my criminal justice professor (who worked for the California Narcotics Bureau) went up for his PHD in communications, the professor who was supervising him said "I don't see how communication has anything to do with Law Enforcement." You should know better, I'm sure you do know better, but you don't act like it. I've talked dozens of irate people out of fights by being reasonable and speaking in a normal tone of voice and I'm sure you've done the same. But you have a natural tendency to defend assholes and hotheads. Yeah, I've been there. I've backed up guys whose actions I didn't agree with, but in my case no one died. At some point you should reflect back on the cops you have worked with that you knew were not doing their jobs and stop saying "I need to defend these guys.".

More than that. We have both had terrible supervisors, people who were stupid or dangerous or dirty or drunk and we don't need to defend their policies.

Not sure how much of that if any was part of the story or directed at me. I have and will always do what is right with regards to personnel issues and that includes trying to fire those that need it. I have stressed numerous times how I hate poor and lazy police work and won't tolerate bullies in uniform.

Once again you are assigning things to me that do not fit, I have never said or implied that cops are just looking for people to shoot, show me one instance or GTFO.

Why does it matter so much to you what led up to shooting?

I'm not going back through all of your posts in this thread or others to find implications you may have written. But it is a readily apparent fact that you feel cops shoot people with impunity and that other cops are obligated to defend, cover up or simply wash away a shooting. It just isn't so. And far to many folks believe as you do when there is very little truth or evidence to that.

What matters in what led up to the shooting is how the officer came to the decision he felt it necessary to shoot someone in the back. Was he just pissed that the guy made him run a few blocks and then decided to shoot him? then it's murder. Had they just fought for 10 minutes straight after a long run and the officer was hit in the head and disoriented or something? Then maybe it was bad judgement brought about form some impairment. It will still be a crime regardless, but did it happen and what could have been done to prevent it? That's why it all matters you dip. It could benefit both citizens and officers to know how the tragedy could have been stopped.

What in your mind could have happened to not make this a crime?

Nothing I can see in that clip makes it not a crime. What could be determined is what I explained above.

 

[Jiggyfly]

What matters in what led up to the shooting is how the officer came to the decision he felt it necessary to shoot someone in the back. Was he just pissed that the guy made him run a few blocks and then decided to shoot him? then it's murder. Had they just fought for 10 minutes straight after a long run and the officer was hit in the head and disoriented or something? Then maybe it was bad judgement brought about form some impairment. It will still be a crime regardless, but did it happen and what could have been done to prevent it? That's why it all matters you dip. It could benefit both citizens and officers to know how the tragedy could have been stopped.

There is plenty on that case to understand what happened, if you want the answers they are out there.

You can just watch the video and see the officer disturbing the scene to know he knew he was wrong.

Abd my whole point again in all of this is that without the video he would have been exonerated because he would have had every other officer willing to give him a reason why.

 

[fortsbest]

There is plenty on that case to understand what happened, if you want the answers they are out there.

You can just watch the video and see the officer disturbing the scene to know he knew he was wrong.

Abd my whole point again in all of this is that without the video he would have been exonerated because he would have had every other officer willing to give him a reason why.

Really? You've seen all the evidence? Heard all the testimony? I've only seen about a 15-20 second clip when the shooting takes place. And anything else is hearsay and newspaper articles and you know that always has a slant. And again you assume that all cops cover for other bad cops to protect them. You don't think in modern times good cops exist and understand that the risk for covering for poor cops is far to great liability? Finding out exactly what happened matters for the reasons I gave you. If you in your infinite wisdom can't understand that having worked in the juvenile justice system for 3 year then you really don't get it. Comment if you like, but I'm done trying to get through some of your unreasonable dislike and distrust of everything police. Comment and insult all you like but I'm done with you on this.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Really? You've seen all the evidence? Heard all the testimony? I've only seen about a 15-20 second clip when the shooting takes place. And anything else is hearsay and newspaper articles and you know that always has a slant. And again you assume that all cops cover for other bad cops to protect them. You don't think in modern times good cops exist and understand that the risk for covering for poor cops is far to great liability? Finding out exactly what happened matters for the reasons I gave you. If you in your infinite wisdom can't understand that having worked in the juvenile justice system for 3 year then you really don't get it. Comment if you like, but I'm done trying to get through some of your unreasonable dislike and distrust of everything police. Comment and insult all you like but I'm done with you on this.

That clip is longer than 15 -20seconds and it shows the officer in danger at no point and him tampering with evidence.

But you are right this a useless back and forth especially with you contiuing to paint me as cop hater because I have issue with some of the culture.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Training is definitely an answer to help lower the numbers of deaths and shootings and just because a shooting was justified does not mean it couldn't have been prevented.

100% agree with every word in this sentence and I sympathize with your budget situation. Officers coming into my agency for all intents and purposes have no idea what they are doing and receive no training except from veteran officers, and most of them are retiring fast. We have new people training new people and the results are bad.

 

[fortsbest]

Honesty Jiggs, if it were only some of the culture I could see that. And I have said repeatedly there are departments filled with officers that shouldn't be. But there is never any point of give on your part or acceptance of my comments as a possibility, you just pick a point in any string I may have written you don't agree with and keep on harping. That is not debate, that is not even conversation, that is trying to bully your way into people accepting yours and only your view is it relates to the topic. That is why I am done conversing with you regarding this. Your comments here don't even allow that this isn't the culture it was even as recently as 20 years ago when I first started and as you said earlier, you can just keep having the "shit scared out of you" that departments are looking at these things with an eye to cover them up. Good luck to you sir.

 

[fortsbest]

100% agree with every word in this sentence and I sympathize with your budget situation. Officers coming into my agency for all intents and purposes have no idea what they are doing and receive no training except from veteran officers, and most of them are retiring fast. We have new people training new people and the results are bad.

Absolutely sir.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Honesty Jiggs, if it were only some of the culture I could see that. And I have said repeatedly there are departments filled with officers that shouldn't be. But there is never any point of give on your part or acceptance of my comments as a possibility, you just pick a point in any string I may have written you don't agree with and keep on harping. That is not debate, that is not even conversation, that is trying to bully your way into people accepting yours and only your view is it relates to the topic. That is why I am done conversing with you regarding this. Your comments here don't even allow that this isn't the culture it was even as recently as 20 years ago when I first started and as you said earlier, you can just keep having the "shit scared out of you" that departments are looking at these things with an eye to cover them up. Good luck to you sir.

I am not trying to bully anybody into anything and you claim I am ignoring stuff while you ignore what I have stated many times.

I respect cops and believe 90% of them act in good faith when dealing with civilians, my only issue is that the other 10% act with impunity and if good cop makes a mistake most likely the culture will cover it up, thereby leading bad cops to feel bulletproof.

I don't know how you take that and turn it into I think all cops are bad.

But it is disheartening to read you who I think wants to and does the right thing as a cop give weak exscuses IMO for questionable and unquestionable cop behavior.

I understand you feel under assault but that's the bad cops fault not mine.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Really? You've seen all the evidence? Heard all the testimony? I've only seen about a 15-20 second clip when the shooting takes place. And anything else is hearsay and newspaper articles and you know that always has a slant. And again you assume that all cops cover for other bad cops to protect them. You don't think in modern times good cops exist and understand that the risk for covering for poor cops is far to great liability?

I think you'd make a great criminal defense attorney! Imagine what would happen if you thought this way about all those people who get arrested?