Archer: Zack Martin's center snaps to affect Cowboys' game-day roster

[Carp]

Is this whole argument real?

 

[skidadl]

I'm assuming what skid means is everyone that posts an opinion is automatically considering themselves right in their opinion and better than the coaches opinion. No one on this board thinks they should be a coach in this league, but by golly, we have an opinion on what the coaches and FO do.

This doesn't make us better or smarter than the FO and coaches we have in place. It only makes us opinionated. How that comes off as arrogant and self-absorbed is beyond me. We just have opinions. I can't remember a single person saying that he thinks he could be a better coach/talent evaluator/ FO person than what we have in place. We just have a bunch of posters that have watched this team and football for years and know a little bit about the game and want to talk about what they know. Of course we aren't experts in this. Who is on these msg boards? The point is, we just express opinion. But, to respond to someone's opinion with some "you think you're an expert?!?!?!" is stupid. No one on here claims that. We just have an opinion. It's that damn simple.

Then what's the problem? If you agree that you aren't an expert then why get so offended if someone says that?

I feel like we are in two different conversations.

Me - you are full of shit and don't know nothin about football

You - you self-righteous SOB!!

Me - you aren't an expert!

You - I know!!! You suck!

Me - Then why are you mad?

You - because you are on a tirade!!!



I honestly don't understand what part you are pissed about. It seems like we agree but you are still mad? Can you clear that up for me?

 

[skidadl]

Is this whole argument real?

I'm not sure which part is and which part isn't.

 

[Cotton]

I think the disconnect is you thinking that I think I'm an expert.

 

[townsend]

I think I might be better at personnel acquisitions than Chip Kelly.

 

[skidadl]

I'm assuming what skid means is everyone that posts an opinion is automatically considering themselves right in their opinion and better than the coaches opinion. No one on this board thinks they should be a coach in this league, but by golly, we have an opinion on what the coaches and FO do.

I'd like to clear this up a little since you know that you are assuming.

This topic was about where to use Collins. As usual we've got a few clanging the cymbal about how much the FO staff are idiots because they can't see the easy answer right in front of their face. How dumb it is to make that call. We can see how dumb it is but once again our idiot team can't. Did this happen or no? Pretty common theme here, wouldn't you say? If yes, then I am basically right about the entire damn subject. You just don't like that I pointed it out. Someone who takes their opinions less serious will just chuckle and move on. Nope, not you. You immediately get angry for questioning you knowledge and start saying I'm self-righteous and whatever.

Mind you, I've been here for 10 years and I cannot remember ever trying to assert myself as some all-knowing football book (I hope not cause I've done a lot of dumb stuff over the years). Hell, I haven't been all up in these football threads in a serious way for years. I come in here and talk a little football crap occasionally and crack a few dumb jokes and that's about it. Why? Cause Jerry sucks, the team is stupid, we will fail, life is terrible and all of that. It gets a little depressing sometimes. I don't live real life like that.

Seriously, is there something wrong with shaking things up a little? Challenging some long standing thought here at the DCC?

 

[skidadl]

I think the disconnect is you thinking that I think I'm an expert.

If you don't then why get all defensive when your uninformed opinion is called into question? That one touched a major nerve for some reason.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I go away for a while and the limberger caper is building again. Carry on.

 

[Cotton]

If you don't then why get all defensive when your uninformed opinion is called into question? That one touched a major nerve for some reason.

First, no major nerve was touched. You are assuming that. We started this all off with a debate about whether or not Collins should be used at T. I expressed my opinion, and you basically said my opinion sucks because I have never coached before. While true that I have never coached before, I know a little bit about football. I'm no expert, but I'm not a football idiot, either. You can take my opinion for whatever you would like, but it is just an opinion. Something you seem to think I shouldn't have for whatever reason.

And, now we circle back around to the method in which someone should express their opinion. Every single time someone has opinion about something that is contrary to what the team is doing, they are calling into question the coaches methods or decisions. That happens a LOT on any board you go to. If that is taken away then this board might as well dry up and blow away. It's that simple.

 

[skidadl]

First, no major nerve was touched. You are assuming that. We started this all off with a debate about whether or not Collins should be used at T. I expressed my opinion, and you basically said my opinion sucks because I have never coached before. While true that I have never coached before, I know a little bit about football. I'm no expert, but I'm not a football idiot, either. You can take my opinion for whatever you would like, but it is just an opinion. Something you seem to think I shouldn't have for whatever reason.

And, now we circle back around to the method in which someone should express their opinion. Every single time someone has opinion about something that is contrary to what the team is doing, they are calling into question the coaches methods or decisions. That happens a LOT on any board you go to. If that is taken away then this board might as well dry up and blow away. It's that simple.

Which is pretty dumb to assume since if that's what I wanted the message board wouldn't exist. Why would I be so retarded to not want people to disuss?

My point was they you are clueless about the evaluation tools that have been used to determine where Collins will play. That was the entire point. How the F do you know what had happened since you aren't there? How can you make an informed suggestion? You can't.

It is hilarious to watch though. The FO is stupid cause they are using Collins wrong, huh? Cause he played T in college and you said he should be tried at T. That's all fine but the point is that you don't really know.

 

[skidadl]

First, no major nerve was touched. You are assuming that. We started this all off with a debate about whether or not Collins should be used at T. I expressed my opinion, and you basically said my opinion sucks because I have never coached before. While true that I have never coached before, I know a little bit about football. I'm no expert, but I'm not a football idiot, either. You can take my opinion for whatever you would like, but it is just an opinion. Something you seem to think I shouldn't have for whatever reason.

And, now we circle back around to the method in which someone should express their opinion. Every single time someone has opinion about something that is contrary to what the team is doing, they are calling into question the coaches methods or decisions. That happens a LOT on any board you go to. If that is taken away then this board might as well dry up and blow away. It's that simple.

Which is pretty dumb to assume since if that's what I wanted the message board wouldn't exist. Why would I be so retarded to not want people to disuss?

My point was they you are clueless about the evaluation tools that have been used to determine where Collins will play. That was the entire point. How the F do you know what had happened since you aren't there? How can you make an informed suggestion? You can't.

It is hilarious to watch though. The FO is stupid cause they are using Collins wrong, huh? Cause he played T in college and you said he should be tried at T. That's all fine but the point is that you don't really know.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That's all fine but the point is that you don't really know.

Neither does the organization though...

 

[skidadl]

Neither does the organization though...

To an extent you are right.

At least they have the experience and the benifit of been present during practice. iamtdg probably doesn't even know what a bucket step is.

 

[Cotton]

Neither does the organization though...

You can't know that. You don't know shit about the evaluation tools that have been used to determine that. So, stop acting like you are some damn expert.

 

[Cotton]

To an extent you are right.

At least they have the experience and the benifit of been present during practice. iamtdg probably doesn't even know what a bucket step is.

See, you keep acting like I'm a football idiot. Oh, you have coached and I haven't so that makes sense.

 

[boozeman]

To an extent you are right.

At least they have the experience and the benifit of been present during practice. iamtdg probably doesn't even know what a bucket step is.

Alright, let's play the little game you are playing right now, where the coaches have the experience and "benifit of been present" during practice.

Why is it then that Kyle Wilber never practiced at MLB? Yet now, he is. And appears to be doing pretty well.

They saw him every day in practice. They should "know", right?

Thing is, they don't know it all, despite being around it every single day.

Afterall, this organization once fielded an offensive line that included Nate Livings, Bernadeau starting and Phil effin' Costa. And they felt pretty damn good about that too. There was a pretty smart coach named Bill Callahan that actually endorsed that hot mess.

Collins probably will make a better pro guard and could very well end up there. Even looks like it in terms of body build. The general point is once there are a shortage of bodies at tackle, there might be a little regret they did not see what he could do at the position. The most reasonable explanation is not that the "coaches just know, okay?", it is more like they want him to get the most work they can at the position they feel might be best for him now.

I am not one of these guys who are like oh crap, he's better than Free right now and should be competing with him right now blah blah blah. Free has his utility and I do trust they have a reason for keeping him starting just like they do another fan whipping boy like Nick Hayden.

If you are going to experiment a bit, training camp is the time to do it and a few shirts and shells practices in spring OTAs might not have been doing Collins and his talent any justice. They barely have seen him play full contact football live in person.

Yeah, I get how they can look at his footwork and say he can't play outside, but his power is something they have had very little chance to evaluate in live action. I don't think wondering why they have not done their due diligence with him at tackle at all is unreasonable to ask.

They are doing a lot of mixing and matching with the DL, playing linemen inside and out trying to see what they have. Why not on the OL where you sometimes might want to dress no more than seven linemen?

 

[skidadl]

Alright, let's play the little game you are playing right now, where the coaches have the experience and "benifit of been present" during practice.

Why is it then that Kyle Wilber never practiced at MLB? Yet now, he is. And appears to be doing pretty well.

They saw him every day in practice. They should "know", right?

Thing is, they don't know it all, despite being around it every single day.

Afterall, this organization once fielded an offensive line that included Nate Livings, Bernadeau starting and Phil effin' Costa. And they felt pretty damn good about that too. There was a pretty smart coach named Bill Callahan that actually endorsed that hot mess.

Collins probably will make a better pro guard and could very well end up there. Even looks like it in terms of body build. The general point is once there are a shortage of bodies at tackle, there might be a little regret they did not see what he could do at the position. The most reasonable explanation is not that the "coaches just know, okay?", it is more like they want him to get the most work they can at the position they feel might be best for him now.

I am not one of these guys who are like oh crap, he's better than Free right now and should be competing with him right now blah blah blah. Free has his utility and I do trust they have a reason for keeping him starting just like they do another fan whipping boy like Nick Hayden.

If you are going to experiment a bit, training camp is the time to do it and a few shirts and shells practices in spring OTAs might not have been doing Collins and his talent any justice. They barely have seen him play full contact football live in person.

Yeah, I get how they can look at his footwork and say he can't play outside, but his power is something they have had very little chance to evaluate in live action. I don't think wondering why they have not done their due diligence with him at tackle at all is unreasonable to ask.

They are doing a lot of mixing and matching with the DL, playing linemen inside and out trying to see what they have. Why not on the OL where you sometimes might want to dress no more than seven linemen?

Pretty much dead on. Football is hard enough to predict WITH the benifit of being there. If there was a magic tool then it could be produced. There are a bunch of factors that come into to play the are unpredictable. Even psychology is involved.

The coaches are certainly at a great advantage over us though. Which makes it even funnier that anyone thinks that they are so smart that they can see the obvious and the dukbass coaches can't.

 

[Cotton]

Pretty much dead on. Football is hard enough to predict WITH the benifit of being there. If there was a magic tool then it could be produced. There are a bunch of factors that come into to play the are unpredictable. Even psychology is involved.

The coaches are certainly at a great advantage over us though. Which makes it even funnier that anyone thinks that they are so smart that they can see the obvious and the dukbass coaches can't.

Then why ever question them? At what point does anyone's opinion constitute a valid one? 5 years coaching peewee football? 10 year coaching JV? 12 years coaching the OL of a JC in west Texas?

That's been my point all along. If you can't discuss what the coaches and FO are doing, then what's the point of even being on here?

I almost feel like you're trolling at this point.

 

[boozeman]

Pretty much dead on. Football is hard enough to predict WITH the benifit of being there. If there was a magic tool then it could be produced. There are a bunch of factors that come into to play the are unpredictable. Even psychology is involved.

The coaches are certainly at a great advantage over us though. Which makes it even funnier that anyone thinks that they are so smart that they can see the obvious and the dukbass coaches can't.

Yes and no. They also have their own interests, biases and agendas working against them.

It is no different than it is in any institutionalized walk of life. If the "experts" were really experts, you would never need consultants and fresh eyes. Hell, NFL coaches get fired left and right because they are wrong often, even with the benefits.

You can see examples left and right where paid professional talent evaluators are no more successful than laymen.

It did not take a football genius to tell a guy like Quincy Carter couldn't play. Yet paid professionals convinced themselves he could.

You don't even need the same access. It is like most evaluation processes. You have a 50/50 shot at being right, even against those that do it for a living.

I interview people every single day. Yet someone else who has no experience doing so can basically flip a coin and have about the same hit percentage.

It is not about just being there. There are a lot of things that are visible and obvious externally that when you are into it, you miss because you either don't see it or ignore it intentionally.

 

[NoDak]

It did not take a football genius to tell a guy like Quincy Carter couldn't play. Yet paid professionals convinced themselves he could.

I don't quite agree with that. I think Carter could play. At least, he had the ability to, but his retardation kept getting in the way. And coaches throughout his college and professional career (including arena league) were convinced they could pull him through it. But in the end, that melted chromosome was just too powerful.