Another serious question for the pros here - medical related

[Smitty]

They are lenders not parents. They expect to be paid.

Nobody gives a shit what they expect. Don't lend out money foolishly. It's not irresponsible to take advantage of a constitutionally instituted process that allows for a debtor's best financial interests.

Lender knew bankruptcy existed when they lent the money. If they are that concerned, take a fucking security interest in collateral.

Otherwise.... their tears are delicious. They should take some personal responsibility for lending money foolishly.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Nobody gives a shit what they expect. Don't lend out money foolishly. It's not irresponsible to take advantage of a constitutionally instituted process that allows for a debtor's best financial interests.

Lender knew bankruptcy existed when they lent the money. If they are that concerned, take a fucking security interest in collateral.

Otherwise.... their tears are delicious. They should take some personal responsibility for lending money foolishly.

You have a perverted view of responsibility. It always someone else's fault.

 

[Cotton]

You have a perverted view of responsibility. It always someone else's fault.

Pretty much.

 

[Smitty]

You have a perverted view of responsibility. It always someone else's fault.

No, not always.

Just that in many cases, it's not irresponsible to take advantage of bankruptcy well before "last resort" status.

There is no moral obligation to repay foolishly or usuriously-lent money.

There's a difference between lending money to a friend who stiffs you, and an industry that makes its earnings off basically investing in debt. In the latter sense, it's basically a business risk or bad investment. Should have done better research on your investment. Capitalism at it's finest in my book. You sound like a fucking commie.

 

[L.T. Fan]

No, not always.

Just that in many cases, it's not irresponsible to take advantage of bankruptcy well before "last resort" status.

There is no moral obligation to repay foolishly or usuriously-lent money.

There's a difference between lending money to a friend who stiffs you, and an industry that makes its earnings off basically investing in debt. In the latter sense, it's basically a business risk or bad investment. Should have done better research on your investment. Capitalism at it's finest in my book. You sound like a fucking commie.

We were not talking about lending money. This was someone who was seeking advise about medical expenses. You moved the venue.

 

[Smitty]

We were not talking about lending money. This was someone who was seeking advise about medical expenses. You moved the venue.

You made a general statement about personal responsibility, not specific to medical expenses.

Also, medical bills aren't necessarily "borrowed" money. It might be later bills for services rendered which are simply too steep. I'd still say it's questionable whether there is a moral obligation to repay outrageously high medical bills.

 

[L.T. Fan]

You made a general statement about personal responsibility, not specific to medical expenses.

Also, medical bills aren't necessarily "borrowed" money. It might be later bills for services rendered which are simply too steep. I'd still say it's questionable whether there is a moral obligation to repay outrageously high medical bills.

Then raise your questions before you use the services. Morality comes into play to use the service then decide you think it in your best interest not to pay. That is no different than your client deciding you charged too much after you provided legal assistance. That's not the time to get buyer remorse.

 

[Kbrown]

Doc, I don't make very much money, and it would be morally irresponsible of me to accept this cancer surgery.

God bless America.

 

[NoDak]

Doc, I don't make very much money, and it would be morally irresponsible of me to accept this cancer surgery.

God bless America.

Yeah, I'd hate to be bleeding to death alongside the road and have to decide whether or not I could afford the emergency medical services needed to save my life.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Doc, I don't make very much money, and it would be morally irresponsible of me to accept this cancer surgery.

God bless America.

How about Doctor I need your services how can we work out a plan where I am able to pay you what is affordable for me?

 

[L.T. Fan]

Yeah, I'd hate to be bleeding to death alongside the road and have to decide whether or not I could afford the emergency medical services needed to save my life.

That is totally not in the context of what is being posed here.

 

[Smitty]

Then raise your questions before you use the services. Morality comes into play to use the service then decide you think it in your best interest not to pay. That is no different than your client deciding you charged too much after you provided legal assistance. That's not the time to get buyer remorse.

I get paid up front.

I don't take cases on credit because I know in advance that I may not get anything if I take the case on credit. Therefore I'm not going to bitch about how people are irresponsible for not paying me. If I gave away my services, that's my fault.

If I want to take the case on credit, I'm running a risk that the person may not pay (though technically speaking, bankruptcy lawyers MUST be paid up front in chapter 7, you are not allowed to take payments). If the person cant pay, I knew beforehand that I was giving my services for the chance that I might have to collect against their unexempt assets.

 

[Smitty]

How about Doctor I need your services how can we work out a plan where I am able to pay you what is affordable for me?

For some people there is no plan that can work when you're talking about 20, 40, or 60 thousand dollars or more.

The ramification is that if these people file bankruptcy, they lose their assets in Chapter 7 beyond exemption limits, so you can't be sitting on a pile of cash.

Of course, I also don't believe a hospital should be compelled to provide services; but that's me.

 

[NoDak]

That is totally not in the context of what is being posed here.

Actually, considering the post I quoted, it is. Relax.

 

[NoDak]

How about Doctor I need your services how can we work out a plan where I am able to pay you what is affordable for me?

I'll take 'Sentences never once uttered in the history of mankind' for a thousand, Alex.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Okay. Then consensus for Carl is that he shouldn't worry about paying this bill because the doctors and hospitals didn't ask for the money up front and this entitles him to decide against paying. In addition it is a constitutional right to file bankruptcy if necessary and this is always an option notwithstanding what it will do to his credit. That's only a temporary thing. Not only that but you are entitled to decide that the prices were to high and it's their responsibility if you didn't like the amount charged. Further you shouldn't feel badly about any of this because others are responsible for you in this society. And as proof most think we should take a nanny state approach to these type matters because the system is unscrupulous and you need to be spared from it. Don't feel badly because those folks are required to see that you are taken care of no matter what. Does that about cover it?

 

[Smitty]

 

[UncleMilti]

How about lenders acting responsibly? I came into this field at the height of complete financial irresponsibility undertaken by lenders and encouraged by the US Government. I have no problem giving them the finger because if they tightened their lending standards it would actually probably be better for the economy as a whole.

Hey, they lent money to someone who can't pay it back because they have no assets to liquidate.... maybe they should look into the mirror about being responsible. If they did so because they were motivated by making money off high interest rates, well, they knew the risks, don't expect me to feel bad. Should have checked your desire to make money off interest at the door before handing out free checks. I call that charity.

Great points.

 

[UncleMilti]

I personally have more issue with the hospitals and Dr's going after the debt of truly needy people fighting cancer, sickness etc when our gov't sits by and allows illegals to walk in and get health care knowing 100% that money will never be seen. Hard to track down people without SS numbers and real names...in other words...people who don't exist.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Okay. Then consensus for Carl is that he shouldn't worry about paying this bill because the doctors and hospitals didn't ask for the money up front and this entitles him to decide against paying. In addition it is a constitutional right to file bankruptcy if necessary and this is always an option notwithstanding what it will do to his credit. That's only a temporary thing. Not only that but you are entitled to decide that the prices were to high and it's their responsibility if you didn't like the amount charged. Further you shouldn't feel badly about any of this because others are responsible for you in this society. And as proof most think we should take a nanny state approach to these type matters because the system is unscrupulous and you need to be spared from it. Don't feel badly because those folks are required to see that you are taken care of no matter what. Does that about cover it?

You don't like your own talking points Schmidtty?