The Great Police Work Thread
- Thread starter BipolarFuk
- Start date
fortsbest
DCC 4Life
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 3,763
Sadly this young officer made several mistakes that eventually cost him his life. In any circumstance where violence was concerned the first thing Im doing is getting back up for cover. Second, the guys hands need to come out of his pockets. Hands are the things that will hurt you or get you killed and you need to be able to see them at all times. Next I'm patting the guy for weapons right away. It's hands on the wall, three steps back and spread those legs.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 120,216
Exactly, you think the worse first and hope for the best. You guys have to do that on a daily basis. You can't ever trust anyone. I posted this to illustrate that point. Some in this thread think you can just talk your way into not getting killed, and it's simply not true. I will post another video next of one of the guys that has been protesting heavily against police violence in which he realizes just how fast decisions have to be made.
Kbrown
Not So New Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,155
Couple of thoughts:
1. Watching that knowing what is coming is beyond anxiety-inducing. Jesus.
2. While it definitely doesn't justify injudicious deadly force, it does explain why cops are supposedly assholes at times. If the officer demands the guy not go back in the house, then wrestles with him when he doesn't comply, or if the officer demands the guy show his hands, then wrestles with when he doesn't comply, 99 times out of 100, it turns out the guy is unarmed and is just being obstinate. Jeebus calls the officer a jack-booted fvckstick or whatever. But in this case, perhaps the officer is home with his family right now.
That also explains why I haven't seen it on Gawker, which as I mentioned is my go-to spot for the twenty-something-liberal-with-zero-life-perspective angle, when they usually eat up a sensational video like this.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 120,216
Agreed on all counts.
Clay_Allison
Old Bastard
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 5,488
Hard to see from the video how it went. I've been guilty hundreds of times of letting myself get too close to convicted felons so I could hear them in a noisy area. Any one of them could have stabbed me to death, that suspect's body language fooled me, even knowing what would happen. He didn't look like he was about to fight. That cop was unlucky as fuck.
Jiggyfly
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 9,220
Federal prosecutors drop dozens of stash house sting charges
Associated Press
Associated Press
By MICHAEL TARM, Associated Press
CHICAGO — The U.S. attorney's office in Chicago has quietly dropped dozens of serious narcotics conspiracy charges stemming from undercover stings involving fictional drug stash houses, a federal law enforcement technique critics contend amounts to entrapment and displays racial bias against minorities.
U.S. Attorney Zachary Fardon's office this month moved to dismiss the charges — which carry mandatory minimum prison terms of 10 or 20 years — for 27 out of a total of 33 suspects whose cases are still pending in the district. The suspects were arrested after federal agents led them to believe that the would-be stash houses contained valuable drugs. The drugs never existed and there were often no houses involved. The suspects were usually arrested on the way to the location.
The move from Fardon's office comes amid increasing scrutiny and criticism of the stings by federal judges, who have noted they usually occur in lower-income minority neighborhoods. Even though the drugs are an invention, suspects are typically charged with conspiring to distribute the amount of drugs they were told was in the would-be stash house.
Fardon did not announce the move publicly, and the court filings dismissing the charges offer no explanation. The spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, Randall Samborn, declined comment, including on whether prosecutors planned to drop the charges against the remaining six stash house defendants.
It's rare for a U.S. attorney to drop the same charges in separate cases and strongly suggests a broader shift in policy against stash house cases by the Chicago office, said Katharine Tinto, who teaches law at the Cardozo School of Law in New York and has followed the issue in districts nationwide.
Indicting suspects for drug conspiracy based on the amount of drugs undercover agents tell targets were inside a phony stash house has been among most controversial and most criticized aspects of the stings, Tinto said.
Dropping the drug conspiracy charges "does address at least many of the concerns of critics," she said.
She hadn't heard of other U.S. attorneys taking similar steps, saying it was likely no coincidence the move occurred in a district where courts have spotlighted the issue.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms oversees stash house stings nationwide. ATF Chicago spokesman Thomas Ahern said its agents work closely with prosecutors and they "respect" their prosecutorial decisions. He declined to say if the ATF had run any stash house stings in the Chicago area over the past year but said using the method is still "an option."
"We are continuing to learn from the past and previous investigations," Ahern said. "We adapt so we don't repeat some of these same hard lessons."
The 7th U.S. District Court of Appeals in Chicago in November tossed out a Chicago-area man's conviction for trying to rob a drug stash house, saying a trial judge erred by not letting Leslie Mayfield, of Naperville, argue to jurors that agents entrapped him. He was sentenced to more than 26 years in prison, including for drug conspiracy.
And the chief judge of U.S. District Court in Chicago, Ruben Castillo, said in a 2013 decision that the question of whether agents racially profiled minorities should at least be explored, noting the more than 90 percent of stash-house stings are conducted in African-American or Latino communities.
In a 2012 decision by the 7th Circuit, Judge Richard Posner called the stings "a disreputable tactic," with a greater risk of illegally entrapping suspects because hundreds of thousands of dollars in drug money is dangled before targets, most of whom are poor and desperate for money.
In San Francisco, a decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in December restored the stash house cases of three men from the Los Angeles area, reversing a ruling by a lower court judge who had thrown them out. Still, three appellate judges said they "question the wisdom of the government's expanding use of fake stash house sting operations."
Federal authorities have defended the stings, denying that they entrap suspects and insisting that they only target those who previously indicated a willingness to take part in robberies.
Defense attorneys in the Chicago cases — who say they were given no advance warning or explanation — said Fardon's decision to drop the charges may signal his disquiet about such stings.
Another possible indication the method isn't favored by Fardon: In his year-and-a-half in the job, his office has not initiated any indictments arising from stash house stings, according to court records. All the pending cases began before his appointment.
"With these kinds of cases getting criticism across the country ... they might be thinking ... these cases are disturbing and the punishments excessive," said Chicago-based attorney Steven Shobat.
His client, Alfred Washington and four alleged accomplices were told a Chicago-area stash house run by Mexican cartel dealers held at least 20 kilograms of cocaine; after loading up with sawed-off shotguns and other weapons, they were arrested on their way to the robbery, a 2012 complaint says.
The Chicago defendants still face robbery and weapons charges, which, while still serious, don't carry the same stiff mandatory minimums that offer judges little flexibility during sentencing.
Debate over whether the stash house cases involve entrapment and racial bias, Tinto said, will remain — in and out of the courts.
"This alleviates some concerns about the tactic — especially (regarding) the imaginary drugs," she said. "But it doesn't allay all the concerns about how targets are chosen and how they end up participating."
Associated Press
Associated Press
By MICHAEL TARM, Associated Press
CHICAGO — The U.S. attorney's office in Chicago has quietly dropped dozens of serious narcotics conspiracy charges stemming from undercover stings involving fictional drug stash houses, a federal law enforcement technique critics contend amounts to entrapment and displays racial bias against minorities.
U.S. Attorney Zachary Fardon's office this month moved to dismiss the charges — which carry mandatory minimum prison terms of 10 or 20 years — for 27 out of a total of 33 suspects whose cases are still pending in the district. The suspects were arrested after federal agents led them to believe that the would-be stash houses contained valuable drugs. The drugs never existed and there were often no houses involved. The suspects were usually arrested on the way to the location.
The move from Fardon's office comes amid increasing scrutiny and criticism of the stings by federal judges, who have noted they usually occur in lower-income minority neighborhoods. Even though the drugs are an invention, suspects are typically charged with conspiring to distribute the amount of drugs they were told was in the would-be stash house.
Fardon did not announce the move publicly, and the court filings dismissing the charges offer no explanation. The spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, Randall Samborn, declined comment, including on whether prosecutors planned to drop the charges against the remaining six stash house defendants.
It's rare for a U.S. attorney to drop the same charges in separate cases and strongly suggests a broader shift in policy against stash house cases by the Chicago office, said Katharine Tinto, who teaches law at the Cardozo School of Law in New York and has followed the issue in districts nationwide.
Indicting suspects for drug conspiracy based on the amount of drugs undercover agents tell targets were inside a phony stash house has been among most controversial and most criticized aspects of the stings, Tinto said.
Dropping the drug conspiracy charges "does address at least many of the concerns of critics," she said.
She hadn't heard of other U.S. attorneys taking similar steps, saying it was likely no coincidence the move occurred in a district where courts have spotlighted the issue.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms oversees stash house stings nationwide. ATF Chicago spokesman Thomas Ahern said its agents work closely with prosecutors and they "respect" their prosecutorial decisions. He declined to say if the ATF had run any stash house stings in the Chicago area over the past year but said using the method is still "an option."
"We are continuing to learn from the past and previous investigations," Ahern said. "We adapt so we don't repeat some of these same hard lessons."
The 7th U.S. District Court of Appeals in Chicago in November tossed out a Chicago-area man's conviction for trying to rob a drug stash house, saying a trial judge erred by not letting Leslie Mayfield, of Naperville, argue to jurors that agents entrapped him. He was sentenced to more than 26 years in prison, including for drug conspiracy.
And the chief judge of U.S. District Court in Chicago, Ruben Castillo, said in a 2013 decision that the question of whether agents racially profiled minorities should at least be explored, noting the more than 90 percent of stash-house stings are conducted in African-American or Latino communities.
In a 2012 decision by the 7th Circuit, Judge Richard Posner called the stings "a disreputable tactic," with a greater risk of illegally entrapping suspects because hundreds of thousands of dollars in drug money is dangled before targets, most of whom are poor and desperate for money.
In San Francisco, a decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in December restored the stash house cases of three men from the Los Angeles area, reversing a ruling by a lower court judge who had thrown them out. Still, three appellate judges said they "question the wisdom of the government's expanding use of fake stash house sting operations."
Federal authorities have defended the stings, denying that they entrap suspects and insisting that they only target those who previously indicated a willingness to take part in robberies.
Defense attorneys in the Chicago cases — who say they were given no advance warning or explanation — said Fardon's decision to drop the charges may signal his disquiet about such stings.
Another possible indication the method isn't favored by Fardon: In his year-and-a-half in the job, his office has not initiated any indictments arising from stash house stings, according to court records. All the pending cases began before his appointment.
"With these kinds of cases getting criticism across the country ... they might be thinking ... these cases are disturbing and the punishments excessive," said Chicago-based attorney Steven Shobat.
His client, Alfred Washington and four alleged accomplices were told a Chicago-area stash house run by Mexican cartel dealers held at least 20 kilograms of cocaine; after loading up with sawed-off shotguns and other weapons, they were arrested on their way to the robbery, a 2012 complaint says.
The Chicago defendants still face robbery and weapons charges, which, while still serious, don't carry the same stiff mandatory minimums that offer judges little flexibility during sentencing.
Debate over whether the stash house cases involve entrapment and racial bias, Tinto said, will remain — in and out of the courts.
"This alleviates some concerns about the tactic — especially (regarding) the imaginary drugs," she said. "But it doesn't allay all the concerns about how targets are chosen and how they end up participating."
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 52,949
Jiggyfly
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 9,220
Look at his hands when he gets out of the car.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 120,216
Dude you can't see what his hands are doing. He's at the edge of the video and it's dark.
Jiggyfly
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 9,220
Maybe you cannot see but I saw it pretty easily. His hands are in the air.
Pause it at 1:47
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 120,216
I can definitely see one hand after going through it slowly, but I can't say for sure I can see both.
fortsbest
DCC 4Life
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 3,763
Based on this video you have no clue what he was doing while he was sitting in the car. The officer yelled he saw a gun, told the guy not to move several times. for whatever reason the door won't open as you can see the officer try several times. So there is so much here that you can't tell from the video alone, and from what i read in the thread at youtube, the cop knew the guy and he was an ex-felon. Not justifying the shooting, but not judging yet either.
Jiggyfly
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 9,220
I agree there is a lot going on there but his hands were up.
After doing some reading it seems the officer knew this guys rap sheet and he might have overreacted to his history.
fortsbest
DCC 4Life
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2013
- Messages
- 3,763
Or.... he might have reacted to something he saw inside the car that we couldn't from that vantage point. I'm not saying he didn't over-react but again I'm not going to presume anything. I get from your writing that you are already leaning toward the fact the officer is wrong. And I apologize, but this is the sense I generally get from you in these discussions.