Sullivan: Garrett’s 3-Year Plan Among Random Thoughts

[E_D_Guapo]

Just curious who is going to get credit if this team has playoff success in the next few years. I'm not even talking Super Bowl, but a few years of getting into the playoffs and winning some games. I realized this is dealing in hypotheticals and I don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? I know for damn sure no one is going to give Jerry Jones credit. He'll get the "in spite of himself" treatment (which will probably be mostly accurate). Seems pretty clear that no one is going to give credit to Jason Garrett either, even if he is the head coach that gets them there.

So who then? Just the plain ole dumb luck, blind squirrel/nut explanation?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Just curious who is going to get credit if this team has playoff success in the next few years. I'm not even talking Super Bowl, but a few years of getting into the playoffs and winning some games. I realized this is dealing in hypotheticals and I don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? I know for damn sure no one is going to give Jerry Jones credit. He'll get the "in spite of himself" treatment (which will probably be mostly accurate). Seems pretty clear that no one is going to give credit to Jason Garrett either, even if he is the head coach that gets them there.

So who then? Just the plain ole dumb luck, blind squirrel/nut explanation?

The buck stops with the GM. If you're going to trash him for the bad years then you have to give him credit when he succeeds as a GM. Of course this is a hypothetical so we have no way of knowing if this team will actually have some success.

 

[NoDak]

Just curious who is going to get credit if this team has playoff success in the next few years. I'm not even talking Super Bowl, but a few years of getting into the playoffs and winning some games. I realized this is dealing in hypotheticals and I don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? I know for damn sure no one is going to give Jerry Jones credit. He'll get the "in spite of himself" treatment (which will probably be mostly accurate). Seems pretty clear that no one is going to give credit to Jason Garrett either, even if he is the head coach that gets them there.

So who then? Just the plain ole dumb luck, blind squirrel/nut explanation?

I'd give credit to both Jerry and Garrett. Along with both offensive and defensive staffs. It's not like these players just magically appeared and coached themselves. Somebody had to have a say in acquiring them. And the coaches thus far, Garrett included, have done a good job putting them in position to succeed.

 

[Cotton]

Just curious who is going to get credit if this team has playoff success in the next few years. I'm not even talking Super Bowl, but a few years of getting into the playoffs and winning some games. I realized this is dealing in hypotheticals and I don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? I know for damn sure no one is going to give Jerry Jones credit. He'll get the "in spite of himself" treatment (which will probably be mostly accurate). Seems pretty clear that no one is going to give credit to Jason Garrett either, even if he is the head coach that gets them there.

So who then? Just the plain ole dumb luck, blind squirrel/nut explanation?

If Linehan and Marinelli don't stick around, I don't think your scenario is plausible, but... if they do stick around I would give them credit. If they don't stick around and we keep winning, at that point (depending on what happens at our coordinator positions) I might be inclined to give Garrett some credit. I just don't see it happening if we lose Linehan and Marinelli.

 

[ravidubey]

The buck stops with the GM. If you're going to trash him for the bad years then you have to give him credit when he succeeds as a GM. Of course this is a hypothetical so we have no way of knowing if this team will actually have some success.

You have to credit Jerry Jones (or whoever it was who held him down and slapped duct tape over his mouth) for drafting Martin over Johnny F.

You also have to credit whoever hired Scott Linehan, promoted Rod Marinelli, and forcefully kept Bill Callahan as OL coach.

If Jerry drafts a defensive front seven player in the 1st round next year-- especially an interior DT, I may be willing to say bygones on the whole two-decades of incompetence thing, too.

Really.

A heart attack in 2011 showed me life is too damned short to hold a grudge. Even for this.

But he (or whoever it is) has to keep making good.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If Linehan and Marinelli don't stick around, I don't think your scenario is plausible, but... if they do stick around I would give them credit. If they don't stick around and we keep winning, at that point (depending on what happens at our coordinator positions) I might be inclined to give Garrett some credit. I just don't see it happening if we lose Linehan and Marinelli.

I don't think Marinelli will jump ship for a head coaching job that quickly. He has been around the NFL and tried that and failed. I don't think Jerry will have any problem paying him like a top defensive coordinator to stay here.

Linehan on the other hand is significantly younger and may want to test his hand as a head coach again. If our offense keeps looking great we might not have him more then a season or two.

 

[Smitty]

I'll take the X's and O's guy over what amounts to a sideline clapper any day.

If he was just a sideline clapper, I'd agree.

 

[Smitty]

There it is again.



There is no probably. There is no doubt that Wade is a better DC than Garrett is an OC. To even try to argue otherwise is ridiculous.

Well now you are just arguing semantics. I'm agreeing with you, basically.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

If Linehan and Marinelli don't stick around, I don't think your scenario is plausible, but... if they do stick around I would give them credit. If they don't stick around and we keep winning, at that point (depending on what happens at our coordinator positions) I might be inclined to give Garrett some credit. I just don't see it happening if we lose Linehan and Marinelli.

Those coordinators hired themselves? They forced their way into the organization uninvited somehow?

 

[NoDak]

Well now you are just arguing semantics. I'm agreeing with you, basically.

No, you're not. When you throw the add on of probably, you're leaving that element of doubt. That foot in the door where you could always come back and weasel your way out. You've done the same thing here. "I'm agreeing with you.................. basically." Riiiiiiiight.

Sack up and say what you mean, without adding the escape clause in.

 

[Smitty]

I'm not so sure Linehan will be in hot demand. He's another guy who has kinda been around the block; it's not as if he's an up and coming hot coaching prospect.

He could get another gig, but if he does, it's just evidence of how mediocre (or unimaginative) the head coaching pool currently is.

 

[L.T. Fan]

As a pure Xs and Os guy, probably.

But I'd never want Wade anywhere near my team because of his toxic loser personality. Proven in like 6 stops now.

Maybe Garrett's approach actually is going to lead to improvement over time. Wade never accomplished anything but short term bump before collapse.

Phillips accomplished as much as Garrett has so far. As a coach he is actually a little ahead in my view. If Garrett improves the team's performance it will be because on the others on the coaching staff.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Those coordinators hired themselves? They forced their way into the organization uninvited somehow?

This is why I think ultimately you'd have to give Jerry credit. He's the one who makes the final decisions. Even if the guys under him are the ones giving the great recommendations on what to do, you have to give Jerry credit for surrounding himself with those guys and actually listening to them.

 

[Cotton]

Those coordinators hired themselves? They forced their way into the organization uninvited somehow?

Linehan was forced on Garrett. Or, at very least, Garrett was forced to hire an OC because he sucked at doing it and he chose Linehan. Garrett and Linehan are longtime friends, so, as much as Jerry gets credit for hiring Jimmy, I suppose Garrett in that case would get credit for hiring Linehan.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

The buck stops with the GM. If you're going to trash him for the bad years then you have to give him credit when he succeeds as a GM. Of course this is a hypothetical so we have no way of knowing if this team will actually have some success.

Of course it's a hypothetical. And it wouldn't even be a hypothetical worth discussing right now without a 5–1 start and what looks to be an elite offensive line. I hate Jerry f'ing Jones as much as anyone. I've also not been the biggest Garrett supporter as I think he did not to earn/deserve to keep his job up until this point so I'm not so sure they're going to be able to achieve the type of success I described. If they do though, it is going to be humorous watching a lot of people on here try to credit everyone but the GM and the coach.

Now, if the team fails again this year none of this matters. Or if they go 10–6 and maybe win one playoff game, then fall right back to 8–8 with no playoffs next year, again none of this matters. But it will be interesting to see the reaction if they are one of the best teams in the NFC for the next few years.

 

[Cotton]

Only at the DCC could we start 5-1 and look better on both sides of the ball than we have in 20 years and be arguing about who gets credit. Do any of us truly give a shit?

 

[Smitty]

No, you're not. When you throw the add on of probably, you're leaving that element of doubt. That foot in the door where you could always come back and weasel your way out. You've done the same thing here. "I'm agreeing with you.................. basically." Riiiiiiiight.

Sack up and say what you mean, without adding the escape clause in.

Gee, when I do that, I get accused of speaking in absolutes.

What I mean is, yeah, 2009 DC Wade is better as an Xs and Os coordinator than say, 2013 OC Jason Garrett. But there are other reasons I'd want Wade nowhere near my team. Garrett also had had very real personnel limitations in his role as a coordinator (ie, not taking into account his culpability in player selection).

It's not always a straightforward answer. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the premise generally.

 

[Cotton]

Gee, when I do that, I get accused of speaking in absolutes.

What I mean is, yeah, 2009 DC Wade is better as an Xs and Os coordinator than say, 2013 OC Jason Garrett. But there are other reasons I'd want Wade nowhere near my team. Garrett also had had very real personnel limitations in his role as a coordinator (ie, not taking into account his culpability in player selection).

It's not always a straightforward answer. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the premise generally.

Another loophole.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

Only at the DCC could we start 5-1 and look better on both sides of the ball than we have in 20 years and be arguing about who gets credit. Do any of us truly give a shit?

I won't give a shit if they actually get over the hump and become a legit contender in the NFC for a few years. If that happens I'll be ready to admit that I was wrong about Garrett (and Jerry for having so much faith in him). I'm just curious who else will be ready to admit that and who is so jaded that they'll go out of their way to give everyone but those guys the credit.

 

[Cotton]

I won't give a shit if they actually get over the hump and become a legit contender in the NFC for a few years. If that happens I'll be ready to admit that I was wrong about Garrett (and Jerry for having so much faith in him). I'm just curious who else will be ready to admit that and who is so jaded that they'll go out of their way to give everyone but those guys the credit.

I told you the scenario I give Garrett credit. If he can do it with different coordinators, he gets credit. Because he has already proven without a doubt he can't do it with him calling the plays and being the OC.