The Great Police Work Thread

Cotton

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Did they really need to do a no-knock? Would shouting out "Police!!" really have let a pedophile roam free.
Yes, they really did a no-knock. And, yeah, he was organized enough that he's still running his cult from prison, so yeah, I figure he was organized enough if anyone in his compound heard "POLICE!" he would have gotten away and raped more kids.
 

jeebs

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Yes, they really did a no-knock. And, yeah, he was organized enough that he's still running his cult from prison, so yeah, I figure he was organized enough if anyone in his compound heard "POLICE!" he would have gotten away and raped more kids.
The question was did they need to, of course they actually did it. Have you not been following the thread.

So just to be clear, shouting police a second before the battering ram hits gives the entire operation away, but not the battering ram? Solid logic, but anything that justifies police power ehh...
 

jeebs

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A more typical scenario


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St. Paul police shoot, kill 2 family dogs in SWAT raid - KMSP-TV



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St. Paul police shoot, kill 2 family dogs in SWAT raid
Posted: Jul 09, 2014 6:09 PM PDT
Updated: Jul 09, 2014 6:25 PM PDT
posted by Shelby Capacio - email

ST. PAUL, Minn. (KMSP) -
A St. Paul mother told Fox 9 News that although it's hard to explain how she feels, she knows she is very angry at police after a SWAT team executed a no-knock warrant on her home Wednesday and killed her dogs.

"I was laying right here, and I really thought I was being murdered," Larry Lee Arman admitted. "I don't want to say by who. I thought it was like, the government."

Arman got right down onto his living room floor to show what he says unfolded early Wednesday morning in his St. Paul home. Tune in to Fox 9 News @ 10 to see homeowners give a tour the scene.

"The first thing I heard was 'boom,'" he recalled. "Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Right in front of us."

It was 7 a.m. when police executed what is known as a no-knock search warrant. Arman said he and his two children were sleeping on a mattress when armed members of the SWAT team barged through the front door. The next thing he remembers is seeing the family's long-time dogs stagger and fall.

The blood of the two pit bulls -- named Mello and Laylo -- is still staining the carpet, and Arman's sneakers.

"One was running for her life, and they murdered her right here," he said.

Arman's girlfriend, Camille Perry, was in the bathroom at the time. She raced to cover the couple's young children, who she contends were right in the line of fire while sleeping at ground level.

"The only thing I was thinking was my kids were going to get hit by bullets," she said.

A St. Paul police spokesman told Fox 9 News that the dogs charged at officers, and that they feared for their safety. The spokesman also explained that law enforcement has the right to eliminate potential threats with lethal force, and he pointed out that a judge signed off on the search for weapons and drugs and that investigators believed they were entering a dangerous situation. Arman says that couldn't be further from the case.

"Yeah, I smoke marijuana," he said. "I do."

Arman admits he is a recreational smoker, but he is not the only one questioning the police tactics on East Maryland Avenue. Neighbors aren't pleased either.

"All of a sudden, we see the dogs thrown out like pieces of meat, like they were nothing," Shawn Miller said. "We teared up because they are like family to us. Those dogs are real good dogs."

The only items seized during Wednesday's raid included clothing, a glass bong and suspected marijuana remnants in a metal grinder.
 

Clay_Allison

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99.99% of SWAT raids are still going after drugs, and for smaller and smaller amounts all the time. Warren Jeffs went down years ago, and he was a federal fugitive. He's one of the very rare instances where a SWAT team is needed, not indicative of the 50,000+ no knock raids that go on per year.
 

jsmith6919

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FLDS leader Warren Jeffs has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the sexual assault of 12 and 15 year-old girls who were “spiritually married” to him. The trial, held in San Angelo, Texas, was short but disturbing, with audiotapes and photographs of Jeffs’ crimes presented to the jury. During the trial, Jeffs fired his defense team, and defended himself with rambling missives and an affidavit he claimed came from God. Often, he just sat in silence.

The jury verdict came quickly after hearing particularly sordid testimony, including the testimony of Brent Jeffs, Warren Jeffs’ nephew, who was raped by him at the age of five. Jeffs told Brent “it was God’s will” that he sodomize him. The jury also heard tape recordings of Jeffs instructing young girls in group sex and other sexual acts. Much of this material was found at the Yearning for Zion Ranch, which was raided back in 2008 in West Texas. Although many of the children were placed in foster care after the raid, many are back living at the ranch with their mothers, as an internal struggle for the leadership of the FLDS ensues.

Jeffs’ hold over the FLDS community can not be overstated. Even on the run, Jeffs communicated with followers, and many, like former follower Flora Jessop, believed he continued to attempt to send messages to his followers. His practice of marrying increasingly younger women, even girls, shows that he was a pedophile with an absolute hold over his community. Jeffs dictated what people could do down to the smallest detail, even banning the color red within the FLDS community.

The case is a reminder why it is important to lift the statute of limitations regarding sexual crimes against children. In a close-knit conservative religious community like FLDS, children who are subjected to this kind of control have no say in their lives, because their parents are part of the same system as well. Many times, they cannot come to grips with what has happened to them until they reach adulthood. Jeffs’ nephew had no recourse against Jeffs because the statute of limitations for the crime his uncle perpetrated had run in Utah. The only thing he could do was to take the stand in the Texas trial.

For groups like the FLDS, the Catholic Church, and other religious groups that have had repeated cases of pedophilia and sexual assaults against children, the statute of limitations should be lifted so that cases can be tried, and a jury can adjudicate the sexual, mental, emotional, and physical abuse of children who cannot leave these religious communities without a parent’s consent. The fight to have this happen in states like Pennsylvania and others continues. Until then, many children will continue to suffer and struggle into adulthood as those who use God as an excuse for their perversions continue to go unpunished.

____________________

Another stupid no-knock raid that took down a serial child-rapist. Damn you, cops, for saving children from rape.
This wasn't a no-knock raid, the police were responding to a call they got from a young girl that said she was being held against her will. Also Jeffs was already in prison when the raid on their Texas compound went down
 

Cotton

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This wasn't a no-knock raid, the police were responding to a call they got from a young girl that said she was being held against her will. Also Jeffs was already in prison when the raid on their Texas compound went down
Did they announce themselves before they busted in? Not from what I can tell.
 

Cotton

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But, you're right, he wasn't at the compound when they busted in. They only busted the rest of the child-molesting ring while he was running it from prison. Nice use of force, IMO.
 

jsmith6919

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Did they announce themselves before they busted in? Not from what I can tell.
Wife was just watching this on dateline tonight, did they run in yelling police? No. They drove up during the day with a warrant and proceeded to try and find the girl who called and then saw other other young girls with children so acted on that. Swat didn't get there until later

It was not a surprise raid with flashbangs and stuff
 

Cotton

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Wife was just watching this on dateline tonight, did they run in yelling police? No. They drove up during the day with a warrant and proceeded to try and find the girl who called and then saw other other young girls with children so acted on that. Swat didn't get there until later
A no-knock that succeeded without murdering kids in cribs. Nice.
 

jsmith6919

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A no-knock that succeeded without murdering kids in cribs. Nice.
:lol goin down swingin huh? Look I'm not arguing against no-knock raids here and imo they should have saved the taxpayers some money and shot that piece of shit in the street when they first caught him on the rape charges but this was NOT a no-knock raid anyway comparable to the previous ones mentioned
 

BipolarFuk

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Maybe if Jeff's had a bong they could have gotten some idiot judge to ok a no knock.
 
D

Deuce

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The question was did they need to, of course they actually did it. Have you not been following the thread.

So just to be clear, shouting police a second before the battering ram hits gives the entire operation away, but not the battering ram? Solid logic, but anything that justifies police power ehh...
I'll ask a question in answer to yours.

Is something as petty as a no-knock worth it if it did save children from this guy? No way to know if he would have definitely gotten away and if he would have definitely abused more kids, but is the assumption that he would have been enough?

I think yes is the obvious answer.
 

Kbrown

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HARRIS COUNTY, Texas -- A standoff involving a man who allegedly abducted an Austin girl came to a peaceful end near Houston early Saturday.

The little girl was still with the suspect as negotiators spoke with him for more than an hour.

According to the Austin Police Department, 33-year-old Jesse Thomas abducted 2-year-old Cheyenne Johnson late Friday. The suspect fled in a black Mercury sedan and was not heard from again until he was spotted northwest of Houston.

Deputies with the Harris County Sheriff's Office blocked off a shopping center parking lot along Highway 249. The highway's southbound frontage road was also blocked at Spring Cypress during the negotiation.

Deputies with shields approached the suspect's vehicle and spoke with him for more than an hour before the standoff ended. The girl did not appear to be harmed.

Both the girl and the suspect were placed in ambulances to get checked out.

At the time the Amber Alert was issued late Friday, it was believed the girl was in grave danger. The suspect reportedly had two counts of 'aggravated assault on an officer' against him.

Check back for updates to this developing story.
 

Clay_Allison

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HARRIS COUNTY, Texas -- A standoff involving a man who allegedly abducted an Austin girl came to a peaceful end near Houston early Saturday.

The little girl was still with the suspect as negotiators spoke with him for more than an hour.

According to the Austin Police Department, 33-year-old Jesse Thomas abducted 2-year-old Cheyenne Johnson late Friday. The suspect fled in a black Mercury sedan and was not heard from again until he was spotted northwest of Houston.

Deputies with the Harris County Sheriff's Office blocked off a shopping center parking lot along Highway 249. The highway's southbound frontage road was also blocked at Spring Cypress during the negotiation.

Deputies with shields approached the suspect's vehicle and spoke with him for more than an hour before the standoff ended. The girl did not appear to be harmed.

Both the girl and the suspect were placed in ambulances to get checked out.

At the time the Amber Alert was issued late Friday, it was believed the girl was in grave danger. The suspect reportedly had two counts of 'aggravated assault on an officer' against him.

Check back for updates to this developing story.
Negotiating a surrender instead of sending in SWAT to shoot up everything in sight. Novel concept.
 

Cotton

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Negotiating a surrender instead of sending in SWAT to shoot up everything in sight. Novel concept.
Yeah, I remember at least 3 instances just last week where I heard about a SWAT team coming in and annihilating everything within their range.
 

Clay_Allison

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Yeah, I remember at least 3 instances just last week where I heard about a SWAT team coming in and annihilating everything within their range.
According to this article in the New Yorker SWAT raids are up to 80,000 per year. http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/swat-team-nation

The article includes an account of the Detroit PD SWAT team raiding a party at an art gallery and confiscating all the cars in the parking lot because the gathering didn't have the proper permits for eating and drinking. Are you saying that's appropriate?
 

Cotton

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According to this article in the New Yorker SWAT raids are up to 80,000 per year. http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/swat-team-nation

The article includes an account of the Detroit PD SWAT team raiding a party at an art gallery and confiscating all the cars in the parking lot because the gathering didn't have the proper permits for eating and drinking. Are you saying that's appropriate?
There is a big difference between that and "shooting up everything in sight".

Plus, I find it really hard to believe that SWAT came in and took people's cars because of food permit issues. The NewYorker is renowned for being a slanted newspaper. I just can't believe a team of SWAT members ordered people to the groud and took their keys and made them pay a grand a piece to get their vehicles back over food permits. That's ridiculous.
 

Clay_Allison

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There is a big difference between that and "shooting up everything in sight".

Plus, I find it really hard to believe that SWAT came in and took people's cars because of food permit issues. The NewYorker is renowned for being a slanted newspaper. I just can't believe a team of SWAT members ordered people to the groud and took their keys and made them pay a grand a piece to get their vehicles back over food permits. That's ridiculous.
Government corruption in DETROIT! RIDICULOUS! THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN!
 

Cotton

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Government corruption in DETROIT! RIDICULOUS! THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN!
Good to see you have backed off from your original stance that SWAT does nothing but come in and "shoot everything in sight".
 

Clay_Allison

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Good to see you have backed off from your original stance that SWAT does nothing but come in and "shoot everything in sight".
Happens often enough. How many stories have been posted where they go into the wrong house and shoot the owners or at least the family dog? It happens all the time because they are using military tactics to do civilian law enforcement. You can't pretend the lines have not been blurred between how the police treat citizens and how the military treats enemy combatants since police departments have massively increased SWAT activity, not in response to a crime wave, but in response to smaller and smaller crimes because crime has gone down steadily for over 20 years. What will things be like in 20 more years when cheerleaders for excessive violence like you have had their way? Will there be any difference between American policing and a military occupation? I know you welcome martial law because "heroes" would be enforcing the curfews and crushing the demonstrations with excessive force, but I like freedom from utterly random police violence and the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".
 
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