2013 NFL Draft Chatter Thread--25-27 Apr

[Deuce]

Good breakdown and probably close to the truth. My question is, how do we know Ciskowski wanted Floyd so bad?

 

[Carp]

Damn...Margus Hunt, Carradine, Arthur Brown...I am getting excited for our 2nd rounder.

 

[Smitty]

Good breakdown and probably close to the truth. My question is, how do we know Ciskowski wanted Floyd so bad?

Well people apparently watched him throw a temper tantrum on the War Cam. I don't know it was Floyd, but I think there was clearly disagreement from Ciskowski about trading down. Who else would it have been?

 

[ravidubey]

Travis Frederick said he was surprised Cowboys picked him because, "I thought I was a 2nd round offensive lineman."
----
Last time I heard a Cowboys draftee claim he thought he went higher than he should've was when we reached for Shane Hannah.

I think Frederick was being a smart-ass about his ranking.

 

[Carp]

I'd keep an eye on Bennie Logan too...we seem to like him and he would fit the reach thing we got going here.

 

[Deuce]

Lots of talent still around for 47. I don't buy Cyprien being there because of all the safeties that went round 1. But I like the prospect of getting Short.

 

[Carp]

BTW...Cowboys took and interior lineman in the first.

Vindicated.

 

[Carp]

I could see Margus "Mike" Hunt being in the mix as well.

 

[ravidubey]

I could see Margus "Mike" Hunt being in the mix as well.

I thought you were a bit young for a Porky's reference.

 

[GShock]

After thinking about it last night, this is my take on what probably happened.

The Cowboys got caught flat footed. Again. They were probably hoping that one of the OLs would last since OLs generally DO tend to fall, or in the alternative, at least Richardson (the "quick twitch" DT Jerry referenced) or very possibly even Vaccaro. They were quiet on him, but he went so soon ahead of them it might explain their next trade.

Since they had been expecting a guy they liked to be there, and had probably been expecting to stay put and take him, when Richardson and Vaccaro went off the board fairly late in the process, they hadn't been adequately working the phones to map out a trade down. So now at this point, late in the game, they've either gotta stick to their boards or they've gotta make an emergency trade down.

Sticking to their board means taking Floyd at this point, who apparently at least Jerry doesn't love (though clearly Ciskowski did -- probably Jerry apologists will say Jerry "listened to his coaches" in Kiffin, trying to find Kiffin a quick twitch prototype, and Floyd wasn't it). So Jerry overrules the Scout and possibly Jason Garrett and says to move down because he determines that Floyd isn't a fit for Kiffin.

I say this must be the case, because they admitted they had 19 first round grades on their board, and they were at pick 18. So there were still 2 players left with first round grades on the board, someone made an executive call not to take a first-round graded player at the 18th pick. Given Ciskowski's opposition to trading, I'm guessing Jerry made this call.

The thought process probably was, "We'll move down to the bottom of the round before the run on 2nd round OLs starts and we'll get our pick of them there." My guess? They were probably eyeballing Pugh, who they were rumored to love.

But since they don't have a lot of time to work the phones now, they kinda have to take the best offer out there. Apparently some other team also had a deal on the table for them and backed out. This is now screwing Jerry Jones because he's got a scout who wants to stay and take Floyd, but he's trying to max out the value for that pick now that all his elite players are gone, minus the one he has probably determined doesn't fit Kiffin.

So now Jerry takes a bad deal to try to salvage what is growing into a disaster. He doesn't do a horrible job -- a third rounder to move down that far is not the end of the world. I will take it in this draft knowing I didn't win the trade, but not feeling like I got robbed either.

Then, as I said, Pugh and Long go in the next two picks. I was shocked to see those picks go there and I bet the Cowboys were too. I guess that is the decision they thought they were making -- Floyd, or Pugh and a third. And they took Pugh and a third and then he wasn't there.

Now Frederick... he was a second rounder in most people's eyes. I'm guessing the team saw him that way too.

But I will give them this credit. He probably was one of their top 2nd rounders or indeed THE top 2nd round grade. Instead of getting cute and trying to trade down again to 40 and "match their grade on the player with the right pick" they just sat there at 31 and made the pick. So what they did is, properly identify that there was a run on OLs, and properly identify that they had a good player available to them, and instead of continuing to get cute to try to maximize value, they should just get the player in hand, even if early.

I can live with that decision.

They tried to line up value on with pick spot on Max Unger in 2009 and it backfired. Would Frederick have been an A pick at 45? Absolutely. But if they move down to 40 and tried to wait for him there, and then he went at 38, we'd be left holding the bag AGAIN.

Take the guy now and cut your losses. We can salvage this with a good draft still.

I think this is probably right, though I don't know that they weren't prepared as much as they could be. The other deal obviously fell through, and Jerry didn't think Floyd was the guy. Are we sure (well, internet "sure" anyway) that it was Floyd that Ciskowski wanted? Are we sure that Garrett and/or Ciskowski didn't want Eifert? There was a lot of smoke on that name, so I wonder if he wasn't the top guy for either Garrett or Ciskowski at that point.

I agree with your point about Jerry not getting too cute. There probably was an opportunity to bail on the first completely for a team trying to get back in, and given the unprecedented run on offensive linemen, who knows what would be left if we traded down further.

We got a starter for the interior of the oline and picked up a third. That's acceptable.

 

[ravidubey]

"Wisconsin guys have played well in the league," an AFC personnel man said. "Frederick can play center, but I think he's going to play guard. I think he's a second-round pick, but he may go in the back end of the first because there's not that many centers."

 

[Deuce]

Well people apparently watched him throw a temper tantrum on the War Cam. I don't know it was Floyd, but I think there was clearly disagreement from Ciskowski about trading down. Who else would it have been?

I wasn't around during the trade down so I didn't know about his reaction. I'd love to see a video of it but I doubt it's something the team would put out.

 

[Deuce]

I could see Margus "Mike" Hunt being in the mix as well.

 

[Deuce]

I think this is probably right, though I don't know that they weren't prepared as much as they could be. The other deal obviously fell through, and Jerry didn't think Floyd was the guy. Are we sure (well, internet "sure" anyway) that it was Floyd that Ciskowski wanted? Are we sure that Garrett and/or Ciskowski didn't want Eifert? There was a lot of smoke on that name, so I wonder if he wasn't the top guy for either Garrett or Ciskowski at that point.

I agree with your point about Jerry not getting too cute. There probably was an opportunity to bail on the first completely for a team trying to get back in, and given the unprecedented run on offensive linemen, who knows what would be left if we traded down further.

We got a starter for the interior of the oline and picked up a third. That's acceptable.

Good point. If Ciskowski was pining for Eifert, than Jerry did the right thing telling him to GTFO.

 

[VA Cowboy]

This is the best of the worst case scenario, although I don't love the pick they got a big ugly which is what I wanted, maybe even the best that was left. At 18 all the guys I liked were gone (I think Floyd isa Spears) so trading back was the right thing to do imo and looking at what Atlanta gave the trade seems fairish. You even mention the fact that the 2nd and 3rd's have increased value in this draft. So I can't bitch and moan...

Two issues I have is we didn't get good value in the trade and then reached for a mid 2nd - early 3rd rounder in the late 1st.

Reaching for need, especially in the 1st, is always a bad idea. But I guess since Jerry has so drastically lowered expectations most are just happy we took a player whose name we recognize. But yeah, it's not the end of the world. I guess we could've taken 4th-5th round talent in the first.

 

[ravidubey]

The thought process probably was, "We'll move down to the bottom of the round before the run on 2nd round OLs starts and we'll get our pick of them there." My guess? They were probably eyeballing Pugh, who they were rumored to love.

Link? Because several rankings have Frederick higher than Pugh.

 

[1bigfan13]

If I'm Geno Smith I don't come back for round 2 either. It's not like it's common practice for prospects to hang around in NY for rounds 2 or 3.

 

[GForce78NJ]

If I'm Geno Smith I don't come back for round 2 either. It's not like it's common practice for prospects to hang around in NY for rounds 2 or 3.

The guy has been mr confident for the past couple of weeks leading up to the draft and finally let his colors show when he didn't get selected in the first round. If I'm Geno, I come back in Round 2 with a giant smile on my face, proving that this isn't going to break my attitude and I just want a chance to compete

 

[Deuce]

If you go to the Dallas page on espn.com, it has an interview with Archer and JJT. My God, if you didn't think JJT's writing was bad than listen to him talk. He's an absolute moron.

Whateva, dawg.

 

[BipolarFuk]

I think I take Arthur Brown over Cyprien in that second round mock.