MacMahon: Why were Cowboys high on Hitchens?

[L.T. Fan]

You keep acting like it's only Kiper and McShay, but I've yet to see anyone else have him higher than the 6th round.

I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope for once the Cowboys are right and everyone else is wrong, at least everyone who has publicly rated prospects.

Exactly right. What other options are available?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You keep acting like it's only Kiper and McShay, but I've yet to see anyone else have him higher than the 6th round.

I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope for once the Cowboys are right and everyone else is wrong, at least everyone who has publicly rated prospects.

Just like you'd probably not find a single prognosticator that had Kelcy Quarles as an undrafted free agent. Yet he went undrafted. It tells you that they don't have a perfect beat on the NFL scouting departments of the NFL.

By the way I would have been thrilled if we took him in the fourth. Just kind of shows the disconnect between the fans who study the draft and the actual NFL teams.

 

[Smitty]

Just like you'd probably not find a single prognosticator that had Kelcy Quarles as an undrafted free agent. Yet he went undrafted. It tells you that they don't have a perfect beat on the NFL scouting departments of the NFL.

By the way I would have been thrilled if we took him in the fourth. Just kind of shows the disconnect between the fans who study the draft and the actual NFL teams.

Just because you can show anecdotal evidence that the mainstream NFL analysts are sometimes wrong doesn't mean they are in this case. In fact, they tend to be right, usually, when there is disagreement between them and what the Cowboys think. At least in the last decade or so (Frederick being an exception).

FWIW, I haven't seen a single person come out and say "Hitchens is going to be a good pick" either, just that they don't know.

I think that speaks volumes, because last year when we took Frederick a bit early, everyone, including myself, was willing to say "Yeah, his stock was a little lower, but this is a good player, a long term starter."

I don't think anyone gets that vibe from Hitchens.

 

[jsmith6919]

There may be some exaggeration as to where Hitchens was rated to go. After we picked Frederick a ton of articles was saying he was rated in the third round, when mostly I was seeing second round.

Don't think this is the same thing. The media kept hyping on the couple reports that had Frederick in the third but I remember a couple having him in the first though(granted it was late first), and most I read had him in the second. Hitchens wasn't rated above the 6th by anybody I'm aware of(except the Cowboys )

 

[jsmith6919]

double post...

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I think that speaks volumes, because last year when we took Frederick a bit early, everyone, including myself, was willing to say "Yeah, his stock was a little lower, but this is a good player, a long term starter."

I don't think anyone gets that vibe from Hitchens.

I actually didn't think Frederick's stock was really any lower. I thought he went where he should go. But again I watch a ton of Big Ten football and I saw what a great center he was. I actually know a little about Hitchens and I think he will be a good player.

With that said you're right. I have not idea. Every NFL team could have ranked Hitchens as an undrafted FA and the Cowboys were going full retard and had a third round grade on the guy. However unlike small schools DBs I have a little bit of faith in Dallas's ability to evaluate Big Ten LBers.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Just because you can show anecdotal evidence that the mainstream NFL analysts are sometimes wrong doesn't mean they are in this case. In fact, they tend to be right, usually, when there is disagreement between them and what the Cowboys think. At least in the last decade or so (Frederick being an exception).

FWIW, I haven't seen a single person come out and say "Hitchens is going to be a good pick" either, just that they don't know.

I think that speaks volumes, because last year when we took Frederick a bit early, everyone, including myself, was willing to say "Yeah, his stock was a little lower, but this is a good player, a long term starter."

I don't think anyone gets that vibe from Hitchens.

Exactly right. Hell, even the Cowboys are talking about ST/backup roles for Hitchens. I've followed the Cowboys long enough to know that's an extremely bad sign.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Exactly right. What other options are available?

Of course we ultimately have to see how he does in fact turn out. Same with Zack Martin, Demarcus Lawrence, etc. But as far as draft value goes, until I see other teams say they would've taken him in the 4th/5th round then I'll say we reached and could've had him a round or two lower while getting better talent in the 4th round.

 

[dallen]

It is funny to see how people state that the moves made were all f'd up.

Then three years later if the player turns out they are suddenly all for that move.

I'm don't have enough information to make the choices the team makes. I just look at the fact that if the RESULTS aren't fitting of the pick position, then the grade is bad.

Who here picked Brady as a sure fire #1 QB? Probably none. I didn't.

Deciding the future before it has come to pass if ridiculous.

If Hitchens turns out to be Ray Lewis it is still stupid to spend resources you don't have to spend

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If Hitchens turns out to be Ray Lewis it is still stupid to spend resources you don't have to spend

The problem is NFL teams have no idea what other NFL teams will do. If he is the top rated guy on your board you take him. It's impossible for a team like the Cowboys to sit there and pass on the top player on their board because they think he will be available in the seventh round.

With that being said, I have no idea where Hitchens fell on the Cowboys draft board.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Of course we ultimately have to see how he does in fact turn out. Same with Zack Martin, Demarcus Lawrence, etc. But as far as draft value goes, until I see other teams say they would've taken him in the 4th/5th round then I'll say we reached and could've had him a round or two lower while getting better talent in the 4th round.

I have never discussed draft value about Hitchens. I started with I don't know who he is. Then I saw a video and commented that I liked some things I saw on the video. The next thing I know Schmitty made a comment about me trying to justify the pick and I began a dialogue about I wasn't trying to justify anything. It evolved from there that there was a comment that I was trying to prohibit any discussion about the draft. I stated via a post to Ravi that I really didn't put forth the time or effort to even know who was rated and regardless of who Dallas picked my interest is in the team and players producing especially since there was little that could be done after the fact. That's about the time you made your comment. It is crazy how some jumped to conclusions and made inaccurate comments simply because I said I liked some things I saw in a video.

 

[jsmith6919]

The problem is NFL teams have no idea what other NFL teams will do. If he is the top rated guy on your board you take him. It's impossible for a team like the Cowboys to sit there and pass on the top player on their board because they think he will be available in the seventh round.

With that being said, I have no idea where Hitchens fell on the Cowboys draft board.

I'd come closer to believing he was the top rated guy on their board if it had been Marinelli screaming for him, when it's our st coach not so much

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'd come closer to believing he was the top rated guy on their board if it had been Marinelli screaming for him, when it's our st coach not so much

I actually just read that Jerry Jones said he had a fourth round grade on him. Not sure if that is true or not. I'd imagine we had some guys with third round grades left in the fourth. Especially since our fifth round pick supposedly had a third round grade.

 

[boozeman]

Gosselin: Anthony Hitchens doesn't have best measurables, but Cowboys' Tampa 2 scheme allows for that



SportsDayDFW.com

Published: 14 May 2014 07:33 PM

Updated: 14 May 2014 07:33 PM

SportsDay columnist Rick "Goose" Gosselin hosted a chat Monday to talk about all things sports. Here are some of the highlights:

Question: I’m curious why so many media members and Cowboy fans think that Anthony Hitchens out of Iowa was a bad pick. As a Hawkeyes fan I can say several Hawks that are or were in the NFL have or had very productive NFL careers! I think it was a great pick!

Gosselin: Probably because of the height; he's 6-0, which is a bit short for an NFL linebacker. The draft is all about measurables. You rise or fall based on your height, weight, speed and strength. Too often college productivity is the last step in the equation. That's what hurt Johnny Manziel. And that's what hurt Hitchens. Good player, though. The Tampa 2 scheme allows you to play with players who don't have the ideal measurables but do have the speed.

Question: Anthony Hitchins the MLB in 2015, Sean Lee to the weak side, Bruce Carter the odd man out. Feasible?

Gosselin: Feasible. (DeVonte) Holloman also could be in the mix. Lee is the best player on that defense and I'd be reluctant to move him. That said, he's the best pass-coverage linebacker on this team and could play the weak side. If Lee gets hurt again, Hitchens is great insurance on the inside.

Question: Nothing against Hitchens, but couldn't they have gotten him in the seventh round. Isn't the draft about getting the best value? He may end being a great player, but everything I've read had him as a 7th or FA pre-draft. Obviously, mocks and ratings mean little, but still, if that was the consensus, was it smart to spend a fourth?

Gosselin: The Cowboys liked him there and took him there. His productivity certainly warranted it. His measurables didn't. He fits a need. You don't have to have all the ideal height-weight measurables to play in this Tampa 2 scheme. What you need is speed.

 

[Angrymesscan]

I actually just read that Jerry Jones said he had a fourth round grade on him. Not sure if that is true or not. I'd imagine we had some guys with third round grades left in the fourth. Especially since our fifth round pick supposedly had a third round grade.

Here's where TehJJ's cunning helps us, he knew he could get the 3rd round graded guy later, but the 4th (7th to most) rated would not be there...

 

[boozeman]

I actually just read that Jerry Jones said he had a fourth round grade on him. Not sure if that is true or not. I'd imagine we had some guys with third round grades left in the fourth. Especially since our fifth round pick supposedly had a third round grade.

If that's the case, then Jones jumped the board and reached.

I can see that.

 

[ravidubey]

The scouts story after the 2009 debacle was there are a "range of players" they feel comfortable taking anywhere from rounds 3-5 interchangeably.

It's a cock-sucking BS cover story for what must be wild Libra-balancing mood swings in that war room. "Behaved in the 1st round, now I can shit the bed the rest of the draft looking for glory holes". Pure Jerry stank all over the trade up and the Hitchens move.

 

[L.T. Fan]

The scouts story after the 2009 debacle was there are a "range of players" they feel comfortable taking anywhere from rounds 3-5 interchangeably.

It's a cock-sucking BS cover story for what must be wild Libra-balancing mood swings in that war room. "Behaved in the 1st round, now I can shit the bed the rest of the draft looking for glory holes". Pure Jerry stank all over the trade up and the Hitchens move.

Sounds like Ravi could use a couple of tranquilizers.

 

[VA Cowboy]

The scouts story after the 2009 debacle was there are a "range of players" they feel comfortable taking anywhere from rounds 3-5 interchangeably.

It's a cock-sucking BS cover story for what must be wild Libra-balancing mood swings in that war room. "Behaved in the 1st round, now I can shit the bed the rest of the draft looking for glory holes". Pure Jerry stank all over the trade up and the Hitchens move.

They really are clueless. A range consisting of 3 full rounds. That's over 100 players they claim are "interchangeable". I could see having a range of 5-10 players that you are comfortable taking in each round, but not 2-3 rounds worth of players. It's obviously no wonder this team hasn't won jack in nearly 2 decades.

 

[Smitty]

They really are clueless. A range consisting of 3 full rounds. That's over 100 players they claim are "interchangeable". I could see having a range of 5-10 players that you are comfortable taking in each round, but not 2-3 rounds worth of players. It's obviously no wonder this team hasn't won jack in nearly 2 decades.

But hey, McClay got an A for his work in grouping those 100 players exactly the same.