Draft Weekend Chatter Thread...

[Smitty]

That's insane. If you average 2 high end starters (Guys worth second contracts) you figure they last 10-12 years in the league and there is your starting roster. (12 x 2 =24)

If you are getting three high end starters a draft you are killing it.

Guys don't average 10-12 years in the league. Hell, Ware only ended up being here 9 years and he was an All Timer. Hence why I said "Unless it's Larry Allen and Emmitt Smith" -- examples of two guys who did last over a decade.

I think a realistic average on "hits" is probably more like 5-7 years.

 

[Smitty]

By the way, I notice the Dallas Cowboys drafted 1 guard and tried to trade up to draft another.

That's odd, considering we had "excellent" guard play last year.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Guys don't average 10-12 years in the league. Hell, Ware only ended up being here 9 years and he was an All Timer. Hence why I said "Unless it's Larry Allen and Emmitt Smith" -- examples of two guys who did last over a decade.

I think a realistic average on "hits" is probably more like 5-7 years.

If your franchise player only lasts 5 years you are doing something seriously wrong. For a first rounder that is one contract. If you're getting one contract out of a starter you probably just drafted Spears, aka a bust.

If Martin only lasts 5 years in Dallas, then I agree it was a bad draft. Sean Lee/Dez Bryant will last 10 years a piece here.

 

[boozeman]

By the way, I notice the Dallas Cowboys drafted 1 guard and tried to trade up to draft another.

That's odd, considering we had "excellent" guard play last year.

That just told me that we are going to move on from at least one or both 2013 starting guards after this upcoming season when Martin goes to tackle.

 

[Smitty]

If your franchise player only lasts 5 years you are doing something seriously wrong. For a first rounder that is one contract. If you're getting one contract out of a starter you probably just drafted Spears, aka a bust.

If Martin only lasts 5 years in Dallas, then I agree it was a bad draft. Sean Lee/Dez Bryant will last 10 years a piece here.

I don't think you can assume that. Lee has been made of glass, in fact, I suspect he maxes out at about 8-9 years. Bryant could go longer, but your math was 2*12 and I think it's an absolute rarity that a player reaches 12 years with one team.

Plus again, who is saying you are getting two franchise players every draft?

I said starters, and I said "hits." And yes, I bet the average is much closer to the 5-7 range than it is the 10-12 range.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

By the way, I notice the Dallas Cowboys drafted 1 guard and tried to trade up to draft another.

That's odd, considering we had "excellent" guard play last year.

Or Martin is a RT much like I said. Or of course the even more obvious answer, Dallas is dumb as shit with this stuff. Kind of like drafting a backup TE in the second round and all.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't think you can assume that. Lee has been made of glass, in fact, I suspect he maxes out at about 8-9 years. Bryant could go longer, but your math was 2*12 and I think it's an absolute rarity that a player reaches 12 years with one team.

So you're killing it is you get 2.1 starters a draft. It means most of the time you need 2 high quality guys and once in awhile hit on a middle to low end starter. Barry Church types will always emerge.

 

[Smitty]

Or of course the even more obvious answer, Dallas is dumb as shit with this stuff.

Or the answer that is actually correct.... our guard play was sub par and we are actively looking to replace one or both of the starters.

 

[boozeman]

Or the answer that is actually correct.... our guard play was sub par and we are actively looking to replace one or both of the starters.

I think they end up sticking Martin at RG.

It makes the most sense now Waters won't be back.

 

[Smitty]

So you're killing it is you get 2.1 starters a draft. It means most of the time you need 2 high quality guys and once in awhile hit on a middle to low end starter. Barry Church types will always emerge.

You are ahead of the curve if you are getting more than just 2 players in a draft. Thought I was very clear on that.

There are also more than just 24 players on a football team and many of them play 40%, 50%, 60% of the downs even if they are not "starters."

If you are only getting two players per draft, you are behind that curve.

Yes, Barry Churches emerge.... from UDFA classes. If we hit on those guys I count that as part of the draft like I would if we hit on a 7th round pick, but it's not smart to assume that you will. Hence why I said "we need at least a couple nickle players from those 7th rounders for this to be a B draft."

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Or the answer that is actually correct.... our guard play was sub par and we are actively looking to replace one or both of the starters.

So Dallas is smart now? Someone needs to pass your compliments along to Jerry.

 

[Smitty]

So Dallas is smart now?

No, they are not.

Being able to correctly identify a desperate need, like they did when they drafted Dez Bryant in 2010, doesn't make the team "smart." You can still have good individual picks like Zack Martin though.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You are ahead of the curve if you are getting more than just 2 players in a draft. Thought I was very clear on that.

There are also more than just 24 players on a football team and many of them play 40%, 50%, 60% of the downs even if they are not "starters."

Well really there are only 22 starters. Lets not talk about special teams starters because I think we all know those can be filled late in the draft and free agency. You do need contributors. A good draft will have 2 excellent starters and contributors. But the problem is a guy like Hitchens will be a contributor more then likely. Same for a number of the guys we drafted in the seventh round. I'm guessing some of those D-lineman will at least make the roster for rotational purposes. Same for Street.

The problem is you don't see guys like Barry Church emerging ahead of time. So if you look at a draft and see two high end starters that's an excellent start. No maybe 3 years from not neither guy will be a high end starter. Who knows.

 

[Smitty]

We've been getting 2 players per draft for quite some time now and are well behind the curve.

That alone shows you that we need more.

We're good with getting 2 starters. Where we are failing is also landing a couple nickle starters and long term solid backups. Guys that you'd be landing in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

That's why this draft can't be satisfactory.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We've been getting 2 players per draft for quite some time now and are well behind the curve.

That's because we've fallen so far behind the curve with drafts where we got only one good player or even none. Like the draft where we didn't pick until the third round. Or the draft where we took a goddamn second round TE. Or a draft where we trade away our second round pick to move up for a corner who hasn't been a consistent starter either.

We weren't getting two high end starters in those drafts.

 

[Smitty]

That's because we've fallen so far behind the curve with drafts where we got only one good player or even none. Like the draft where we didn't pick until the third round. Or the draft where we took a goddamn second round TE. Or a draft where we trade away our second round pick to move up for a corner who hasn't been a consistent starter either.

We weren't getting two high end starters in those drafts.

We got 3 players last year. We got 1 player in 2012. We got 4 players in 2011. We got 2 players in 2010. We got 0 players in 2009.

That's 10 players in 5 drafts. It's just not good enough. You need more than that.

 

[NoDak]

2 players, unless it's literally Larry Allen and Emmitt Smith, just isn't good enough. So I can't give it a good enough grade.

2 alltimers at their posititions.

Don't ask for much, do ya.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We got 3 players last year.

Thats a pretty big reach with regards to guys like Wilcox at this point.

Your problem is you are counting Dallas starters who aren't good. Guys like Wilcox and Carter aren't quality starters. They are starters because we don't have anything better. There is a big difference between guys like these and guys like Sean Lee/Dez Bryant.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Or the answer that is actually correct.... our guard play was sub par and we are actively looking to replace one or both of the starters.

They were fine last year but are not long term solutions.

 

[junk]

Dallas does struggle to build up positions of strength simply because they are only getting about 2 players or so out of a draft. Usually those are players that are filling a hole. Lawrence for Ware this year for example. Sturm used the example of running around sticking their fingers in a hole in the dam only to see more pop up. Either players that are no longer effective or players who they missed on in the draft.

If you look at the really good teams in the league now, they've had at either one bang up draft with significant starters coming out of it or a couple of drafts in close proximity with multiple starters emerging .

Seattle - 2010, 2012
SF - 2007, 2010, 2011
Denver - 2010, 2011

I feel like Dallas is building OL into a position of strength although Martin is, hopefully, a 1 year guard and then a long term RT. They aren't building much in the way of depth there.

You've got to get more than 2 starters and 1-2 role players out of a draft.

My worry is that they move on from Carr after this season, don't give Claiborne his fifth year option and are back to the well for a corner again.