What Is American Culture?

[boozeman]

I really didn't know where to put this, but I also felt that it could get lost, but I find the question important.

After I spent some time with family (in-laws) I hadn't been around in several years at the beach this weekend it got me thinking. Of course, the discussion landed on politics late at night when everyone was liquored up and emboldened.

I think people have politics and culture completely intertwined to the point we don't know why are as fucked up as were as as a country now.

To me, it isn't who the damn President is. It is that we have lost our way as a society. I know that sounds contrived, but I completely believe it.

I stumbled upon this documentary which is fascinating and speaks a lot to me why "my" generation, one that was hitting the work force in the mid-1980s now have got us to this point. Money and greed has been a huge part of our culture. It doesn't matter from whom, those that have money want to keep it, some that don't have it will do whatever it takes to get it, those that can't afford it will still spend above and beyond their means. But literally and figuratively.


The trailer doesn't do it justice. It makes it seem sort of whiney but when you get into it, there are some important points being made.

A big one is the fact that in 1971, the dollar stopped being backed by gold and we became a consumer-driven society.

And then our culture in the 1980s shifted into this borrow first, people "made money" for themselves and made their children materialistic, perverting the spirit of capitalism as it developed over earlier generations. We became about status. It doesn't matter if you are in debt to your ass, you could still show off money.

One of the Hedge Fund fake money guys nailed it "if you give out money at no cost, to hundreds of millions world-wide, they are going to do stupid things with it".

I am interested to hear some thoughts.

 

[Sheik]

What is it, or what was it?

 

[boozeman]

What is it, or what was it?

There is no was.

There is only what it is right now.

 

[Sheik]

There is no was.

There is only what it is right now.

I think we currently have two cultures that are trying like hell to kill one another.

 

[boozeman]

I think we currently have two cultures that are trying like hell to kill one another.

I think I answered that question wrong.

But yes, you are correct. We have an inner culture war.

The real issue is the actual question itself.

 

[Sheik]

I think I answered that question wrong.

But yes, you are correct. We have an inner culture war.

The real issue is the actual question itself.

I don’t want to get all philosophical about this, but I feel like the inner culture war is here to stay. The hate is going to keep building and we’re always going to be a split nation.

We’re way too comfortable and lazy to actually fight a real war. Our great great grandfather’s would have fought and settled this shit by now.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Thread has potential, but I feel like like this could go in a thousand different directions. Maybe narrow down exactly what you wanted to talk about?

I will say that desire for wealth and status and excess and showing off goes way farther back than going off the gold standard.

 

[Cotton]

It needs to be blown up so we can get to starting over.

 

[Simpleton]

I don't think greed or desire for status is anything new, it's human nature unfortunately, and the sad fact is that human nature is the reason that history is mostly a constant story of war, violence, and so forth.

I think what we're seeing now is just the confluence of the fact that America has been the richest country in the world for so long, combined with social media which is basically just a mirror of human nature and baring it for all to see at scale.

What we're seeing now has always been there, but because social media is incentivized to accelerate negative emotions we're just seeing more of it, while also spreading as people mimic what they see.

 

[boozeman]

I don't think greed or desire for status is anything new, it's human nature unfortunately, and the sad fact is that human nature is the reason that history is mostly a constant story of war, violence, and so forth.

I think what we're seeing now is just the confluence of the fact that America has been the richest country in the world for so long, combined with social media which is basically just a mirror of human nature and baring it for all to see at scale.

What we're seeing now has always been there, but because social media is incentivized to accelerate negative emotions we're just seeing more of it, while also spreading as people mimic what they see.

I agree partially. The problem with how we became “rich” is much of it was generated by borrowing money, lots of it, in the 1980s. A lot of who we think of as wealthy are actually in debt up to their asses. Then the average citizen sees the fake opulence built on status and starts pursuing that route when most if not all will not be able to achieve that level.

 

[Simpleton]

I agree partially. The problem with how we became “rich” is much of it was generated by borrowing money, lots of it, in the 1980s. A lot of who we think of as wealthy are actually in debt up to their asses. Then the average citizen sees the fake opulence built on status and starts pursuing that route when most if not all will not be able to achieve that level.

I meant more as a country, having the most dominant economy in the world and so forth.

But yes, there are plenty of people out there whose "wealth" is a house of cards, which influences others to copy their behavior.

 

[Foobio]

Ever read Ernest Becker? He wrote a great book in 1973 called The Denial of Death. Everything we create as human beings is to forget about the fact that we’re going to die. It’s why we obsess over money, religion, shopping, drinking, the Dallas Cowboys, whatever.

All to placate our inner terror of death. I think it explains quite a lot about human behavior.

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bbgun]

well now I'm depressed

 

[boozeman]

Ever read Ernest Becker? He wrote a great book in 1973 called The Denial of Death. Everything we create as human beings is to forget about the fact that we’re going to die. It’s why we obsess over money, religion, shopping, drinking, the Dallas Cowboys, whatever.

All to placate our inner terror of death. I think it explains quite a lot about human behavior.

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is way deeper than I was getting at.

Denial of death is a human thing, not an American thing.

I was going more along the lines that our culture is not what we think it is.

The old "hard-working" American has been replaced by the "in debt" American who got there because they were living beyond their means just so they could get attention.

Isn't it strange, for example, that even the lower parts of our income strata will buy objects of status that are insanely out of their range to afford. What is the first thing they do with it? Go out with friends and plaster it on social media.

 

[1bigfan13]

The old "hard-working" American has been replaced by the "in debt" American who got there because they were living beyond their means just so they could get attention.

Isn't it strange, for example, that even the lower parts of our income strata will buy objects of status that are insanely out of their range to afford. What is the first thing they do with it? Go out with friends and plaster it on social media.

To Simp and others point, I think people have been doing this forever. We're just seeing it more because of social media. But I do agree with you that the average American doesn't save their money nearly as much as they used to in previous generations.

Someone with more experience in economics please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume Americans used to save more out of necessity because credit wasn't as big of a thing 50 years ago. But eventually banks and companies realized they could make a lot of extra money by pushing sales via credit

Plus I think the appeal of instant satisfaction influences a lot of people's spending habits. When I was a kid my family used lay-away programs all the time for big purchase items. Compare that to today where the average family probably puts that stuff on some type of credit, they get their stuff faster but they end up paying more in the long run.

A newer thing that's out there now to scratch that instant satisfaction itch are those "buy now pay later" programs.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, I've always thought a huge part of the problem with that was lack of any kind of financial literacy education in our schools. We should be teaching kids how to budget, the power of compound interest, etc. Too many people seem to think you're supposed to buy everything you see. It's like they don't understand that just because it's placed in front of you, you don't have to partake in it.

Different subject but similar idea, I think it's horrible that schools basically don't have any type of phys ed or gym anymore. So many of these poor kids are so fat and don't even know what it feels like to exercise, and it plagues them their entire lives.

But this just touches on a small part of what booze is talking about.

 

[boozeman]

Someone with more experience in economics please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume Americans used to save more out of necessity because credit wasn't as big of a thing 50 years ago. But eventually banks and companies realized they could make a lot of extra money by pushing sales via credit

Plus I think the appeal of instant satisfaction influences a lot of people's spending habits. When I was a kid my family used lay-away programs all the time for big purchase items. Compare that to today where the average family probably puts that stuff on some type of credit, they get their stuff faster but they end up paying more in the long run.

Lay-away was a fair system. You pay over time and then you get it. But things changed in the 1980s. Credit was a bigger deal.

That is part of when I am getting at. That late 1970s-early 1980s period was a major turning point.

The government started borrowing and created the National Deficit. Then our people followed right behind, led by the bankers, hedge fund fiends and the like.

A newer thing that's out there now to scratch that instant satisfaction itch are those "buy now pay later" programs.

It is all about getting things you have no business having and then paying four times as much as it is worth just for status.

Case in point, places like Rent-A-Center.