Short List at 10

NoDak

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I would much prefer a difference maker on defense at that spot, but I am not gonna cry if there aren't any there and we take Pitts. Dude is definitely going to be someone in the NFL.
If for some reason we draft him, I'm not going to throw a tantrum over it. Which is usually the norm around here, btw...

I will love having someone with his skills on the team. No doubt. But that doesn't mean I still won't think it was an overall mistake to do so, team building wise.
 
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NoDak

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Put it this way, if a young Travis Kelce was there, you’d take him no questions asked. Mismatches are a big part of what offensive football is all about.
Nobody knew Travis Kelce was going to be Travis Kelce, until he actually was, in fact, Travis Kelce. Not even Travis Kelce. He wasn't taken until the 3rd round.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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That’s not really true, though.

Yardage doesn’t win you anything next to moving the chains and scoring in the red zone, the latter an increasing weakness of ours. Catches are more important than yards over the course of a game. With Pitts you have a mismatch against nickel coverage every time, and you blow away base sets. With Gallup and Pitts... holy

In the top ten we can’t afford to trade talent for need. If Randy Moss was there, you’d take him without thinking about it, unless you want Greg Ellis again.
Your mismatch theory holds no water. Name 3 NFL TEs that put up better stats than Gallup? If the TEs were such a better mismatch more guys would be beating the WRs in catching stats. They aren't because receivers are just better at catching the ball. ( Keep in mind that Gallup was basically our third target on offense behind Lamb and Cooper)

Nothing against Pitts. If I was in need of a play making pass catcher I'd put him right up there with the WRs in this class. Pitts literally looks like a big WR. I wouldn't say Travis Kelce but Darren Waller may not be a bad comp at all.
 

NoDak

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I don't believe any team in the league is deep enough to have 3 corners that can cover our top 3 WRs.

You want to see a mismatch?

Put any team's 3rd best corner on Gallup. Or Lamb. Or Cooper.

The money down the line is one thing, but we already have mismatches.
Yep. We were on our way to reaping those benefits this year, until Dak was hurt. And the Oline.

Those three with a healthy QB and Oline will be a nightmare for defenses.
 

NoDak

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If Randy Moss was there, you’d take him without thinking about it, unless you want Greg Ellis again.
Again, just like Kelce, nobody knew Randy Moss was going to turn out the way he did, or he would have went first overall. Nothing in the draft is a guarantee, and we can't redraft on hindsight.
 

Genghis Khan

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That’s not really true, though.

Yardage doesn’t win you anything next to moving the chains and scoring in the red zone, the latter an increasing weakness of ours. Catches are more important than yards over the course of a game. With Pitts you have a mismatch against nickel coverage every time, and you blow away base sets. With Gallup and Pitts... holy

In the top ten we can’t afford to trade talent for need. If Randy Moss was there, you’d take him without thinking about it, unless you want Greg Ellis again.

I'm a BPA guy. The biggest mistake a team can make in the draft (outside of trades) is targeting a single position. That's what I believe happened with Ellis. We were desperate for a DE. Hell that's what happened with Taco.

No one is saying to overdraft a guy. But there is likely going to be a small handful of players worthy of the tenth pick.

We shouldn't target any one position come hell or high water. Just lean defense. There will almost certainly be top 10 defensive talents on the board. Just take one. I don't even care which one.
 

Smitty

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Three WRs basically start in today’s league, and it’s come at the FB’s expense, not the TE. Gallup is a starter therefore, and the TE position doesn’t make him less so.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Three WRs basically start in today’s league, and it’s come at the FB’s expense, not the TE. Gallup is a starter therefore, and the TE position doesn’t make him less so.
No but there are still only so many balls to go around. When you have 3 guys consuming most of the catches at a high level the fourth guy just isn't going to get that many looks. If Dak had stayed healthy we probably would have had 3 1,000 yard receivers. What does that leave for your TE? Probably a lot like what Schultz did.

It's diminishing returns at some point. Even if they can all technically "start". I wouldn't cry over Pitts because I think he is a really good player that would help this team for a long time. That always beats a guy who just isn't very good. But when you pick at 10 I think it's a bit delusional to say you can't find an impact defensive player and Pitts is just that much better than everyone else.

Like I said, Devonta Smith is an exceptional WR. So for the BPA crowd, why not Smith? The guy is insane good. Do you want to pass up Randy Moss for Greg Ellis?
 

Simpleton

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No but there are still only so many balls to go around. When you have 3 guys consuming most of the catches at a high level the fourth guy just isn't going to get that many looks. If Dak had stayed healthy we probably would have had 3 1,000 yard receivers. What does that leave for your TE? Probably a lot like what Schultz did.

It's diminishing returns at some point. Even if they can all technically "start". I wouldn't cry over Pitts because I think he is a really good player that would help this team for a long time. That always beats a guy who just isn't very good. But when you pick at 10 I think it's a bit delusional to say you can't find an impact defensive player and Pitts is just that much better than everyone else.

Like I said, Devonta Smith is an exceptional WR. So for the BPA crowd, why not Smith? The guy is insane good. Do you want to pass up Randy Moss for Greg Ellis?
You can be more versatile in terms of your personnel groupings with 3 WR's and 1 TE than 4 WR's. I'd take Pitts while kind of gritting my teeth if he was the clear BPA in the first place even with that additional versatility, so I definitely wouldn't take a WR there.
 

ravidubey

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Yep. We were on our way to reaping those benefits this year, until Dak was hurt. And the Oline.

Those three with a healthy QB and Oline will be a nightmare for defenses.
It’s different in the red zone I think. Pitts is outrageously better than the pass-catching TEs that have come out of college lately. His catch radius is special.

No one knows what the defense will look like post FA, but it seems more and more clear there’s few defenders more prolific or talented than Sewell or Pitts. Maybe Parsons and probably Rousseau.

There will be more chances to get defensive talent later, but the top ten is about QBs or overall talent.

Inalso strongly believe Gallup is odd man out and won’t be signed in 2022.

BTW, Smith and Chase are spectacular, though comparable to Cooper and Lamb. Pitts blows Schultz away though. The upgrade is major.
 
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Cotton

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Nobody knew Travis Kelce was going to be Travis Kelce, until he actually was, in fact, Travis Kelce. Not even Travis Kelce. He wasn't taken until the 3rd round.
Kelce had the benefit of playing under an all-timer in Reid who has utilized him how he should be.
 

Simpleton

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It’s different in the red zone I think. Pitts is outrageously better than the pass-catching TEs that have come out of college lately. His catch radius is special.

No one knows what the defense will look like post FA, but it seems more and more clear there’s few defenders more prolific or talented than Sewell or Pitts. Maybe Parsons and probably Rousseau.

There will be more chances to get defensive talent later, but the top ten is about QBs or overall talent.

Inalso strongly believe Gallup is odd man out and won’t be signed in 2022.

BTW, Smith and Chase are spectacular, though comparable to Cooper and Lamb. Pitts blows Schultz away though. The upgrade is major.
Here's the thing, if we just go back a year, or even 4 months, if someone told us we could draft basically the best receiving TE to come out in what, 10 years? 20? More?

Everybody here would've jumped on it given that TE has been one of our more glaring needs since Witten retired in 2018.

I totally agree with the argument that we already have so much invested in pass-catchers, that Schultz actually looks like a reasonable starter, and that our defense is obviously in need of severe upgrading, and that's why I'd take a similarly ranked DL or LB (Parsons/ Rousseau seemingly) in a second. But what happens if Pitts is by far the BPA and we can't trade down?

Take the inferior defensive prospect just because of need?

I think that'd be short-sighted given that TE was considered a glaring need very recently, and that ultimately you want to go where the talent takes you that high in the draft, within reason. It's not an easy decision by any means for the reasons that have been laid out, but at the end of the day I lean towards the special talent.

If we actually did something in FA I think people would be much more comfortable taking Pitts but in the back of everybody's minds they know we're going to dick around as usual and rely completely on the draft for meaningful upgrades.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I honestly think Witten had become a really glaring problem for us. He just sucked and they kept using him regardless. But that's not a justification for taking a TE in the top ten of the draft now.

Honestly there are good ways to build a team and bad ways. You don't build a team with top ten draft picks at TE. So to take one without a need seems like a really shitty idea that will keep this team mediocre even longer.
 

Simpleton

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I honestly think Witten had become a really glaring problem for us. He just sucked and they kept using him regardless. But that's not a justification for taking a TE in the top ten of the draft now.

Honestly there are good ways to build a team and bad ways. You don't build a team with top ten draft picks at TE. So to take one without a need seems like a really shitty idea that will keep this team mediocre even longer.
Maybe so.

Or maybe if we didn't treat FA like the plague and had a real team-builder running things we'd go after DJ Jones and Marcus Williams in free agency, re-sign Lewis or Awuzie, and have a very competent defense while still taking the generational TE who very well may be the BPA even over Parsons/Rousseau.

Edge: Lawrence, Gregory, Armstrong, Anae, Carter
Interior DL: Jones, Gallimore, Hill, Woods, maybe McCoy
LB: LVE, I guess Smith (can't ask for too much right?)
CB: Diggs, Brown, Lewis
S: Williams, Wilson

That's a solid looking defense (outside of Smith) and we'd still have our 2nd, two 3rd's and two 4th's to address it. We could easily end up with a guy like Nick Bolton, Carlos Basham or Azeez Ojulari in the 2nd to beef up the LB's or edge rushers, or Alim McNeil or Marvin Wilson to beef up the interior DL. Hell, maybe even Nixon or Barmore falls to our 2nd.

The point is that we have the resources to build a decent enough defense and still take Pitts if the situation calls for it, but let's call a spade a spade here. The real problem is we're all worried that the team isn't going to do dick to address the defense in free agency so we don't want to sink our most premium resource of the offseason into a somewhat redundant talent.
 

Cotton

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Okay, let me revise my draft wants...

1. DT
2. Safety
3. LBer(s)
4. CB
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17. TE
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78. Something else
 

Cowboysrock55

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Or maybe if we didn't treat FA like the plague and had a real team-builder running things we'd go after DJ Jones and Marcus Williams in free agency, re-sign Lewis or Awuzie, and have a very competent defense while still taking the generational TE who very well may be the BPA even over Parsons/Rousseau.

The point is that we have the resources to build a decent enough defense and still take Pitts if the situation calls for it, but let's call a spade a spade here. The real problem is we're all worried that the team isn't going to do dick to address the defense in free agency so we don't want to sink our most premium resource of the offseason into a somewhat redundant talent.
Sort of, I mean I'm just generally opposed to taking a TE this high in the draft. Just like I think taking a RB in the top 10 is a dumb idea. I get that you think he is a generational talent. But I'm not sure I agree with that. I think he is an excellent TE prospect. I really do love the guy. But unless he is Travis Kelce or better, he isn't worth it in the top 10.

2019​
1​
1​
8​
8​
T.J. Hockenson​
2​
1​
20​
20​
Noah Fant​
2018​
1​
1​
25​
25​
Hayden Hurst​
2017​
1​
1​
19​
19​
O.J. Howard​
2​
1​
23​
23​
Evan Engram​
2014​
1​
1​
10​
10​
Eric Ebron​
2013​
1​
1​
21​
21​
Tyler Eifert​
2010​
1​
1​
21​
21​
Jermaine Gresham​
2009​
1​
1​
20​
20​
Brandon Pettigrew​
2008​
1​
1​
30​
30​
Dustin Keller​
2007​
1​
1​
31​
31​
Greg Olsen​
2006​
1​
1​
6​
6​
Vernon Davis​
2005​
1​
1​
30​
30​
Heath Miller​
2004​
1​
1​
6​
6​
Kellen Winslow Jr​

List over first round TE's over the last 15+ years. I'm sure that at the time people thought Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow and others were generational talents too. Hell I thought OJ Howard looked like a great prospect. Hockenson has been a very good young NFL TE but he is a perfect example of a team picking in the top 10 trying to build around a TE with those premium resources. It's just a bad idea.
 
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NoDak

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TE may have looked like a glaring need for is this time last year. But it no longer is. I’d even venture to say it is well above league avg.

And I’d be willing to bet that not all of the defensive guys worthy of that spot AND fit a glaring need for us will be gone. As many as 4 QBs can go before us. 2 WRs. 2 OL. If that happens, one of Parsons or Rousseau will still be there.

Hell, they both could be there if a CB goes too. Or PItts.
 

Genghis Khan

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TE may have looked like a glaring need for is this time last year. But it no longer is. I’d even venture to say it is well above league avg.

And I’d be willing to bet that not all of the defensive guys worthy of that spot AND fit a glaring need for us will be gone. As many as 4 QBs can go before us. 2 WRs. 2 OL. If that happens, one of Parsons or Rousseau will still be there.

Hell, they both could be there if a CB goes too. Or PItts.

Yep. I believe one of the top corners go ahead of us, plus maybe Pitts so the point may be moot anyway. Regardless, the chances are pretty strong a worthy DL/CB/LB will be there. Sign me up.

I'm not in a hurry to trade down this year but I'd even do that before I took a pass catcher.
 

Cujo

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Got to spread resources around a little. They're way too concentrated on the offense right now.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Yep. I believe one of the top corners go ahead of us, plus maybe Pitts so the point may be moot anyway. Regardless, the chances are pretty strong a worthy DL/CB/LB will be there. Sign me up.

I'm not in a hurry to trade down this year but I'd even do that before I took a pass catcher.
Yeah I mean I'd trade down if the offer is right. It's just going to depend if someone like Fields or Wilson drops to us. In that case a team may be willing to trade significant resources to move up. I'm not really excited about moving down in the draft for an extra third or fourth round pick. Hell we already have comp picks coming in those rounds. But a team like the Pats, Vikings or WFT might be willing to move up for the right QB and trade away a lot more.

At 10 we should have our pick of most of the defensive guys in this draft. I think at least 2 QBs go top ten, an OT, a couple WR's, maybe Pitts. So at 10 with basically being able to pick any D-lineman from this draft I think it's just a matter of doing our homework and finding the right guy. I'm sure at least one elite D-lineman will come from this draft. We just need to find the right one. Or corner or LBer or whatever.

Ultimately though if I can bag an extra second round pick and move down I'd be thrilled.
 
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