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Cotton

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In the article it says that there aren't any known versions of the script that have surfaced that say anything other than huckleberry.
I'm not 100%, but I'm fairly sure I don't like your tone.
 

shoop

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It's funny you mention the Hobbit because I've been thinking about this

I also want to preface this all by saying I'm quoting you because you brought up the Hobbit but none of what follows is aimed at you so feel free to reply if you'd like but also to ignore if you'd like as well.

I get some of the changes like leaving out Tom Bombadil or the barrow wight or replacing Glorfindel with Arwen. I don't like it, but fine. I get that even with 4 hour movies you have to make some time concessions.
I don’t disagree with your take on LOTR. The movies were beautifully made but trashed some important plot points.
My main issue with the hobbit movies were that they took a book that was less than 200 pages and turned it into nearly 8 hours of cinema, added parts and still missed important plot points or opportunities to show awesome cinematic items. I’ll also admit I haven’t seen them in a while. I watched the hobbit movies in theater and loved watching the Smaug scenes.
 

bbgun

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Some of those crazy long LOTR films should have come with an intermission.
 

Genghis Khan

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I don’t disagree with your take on LOTR. The movies were beautifully made but trashed some important plot points.
My main issue with the hobbit movies were that they took a book that was less than 200 pages and turned it into nearly 8 hours of cinema, added parts and still missed important plot points or opportunities to show awesome cinematic items. I’ll also admit I haven’t seen them in a while. I watched the hobbit movies in theater and loved watching the Smaug scenes.

The Smaug scenes were really well done.
 

Cotton

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Watching The Big Lebowski for the first time in a while and the girl is watching with me. I'm betting she will like it.
 

Cowboysrock55

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It's funny you mention the Hobbit because I've been thinking about this lately.

Before I say anything, I want to admit that I like The Hobbit movies a great deal, but this isn't about that.

I also want to preface this all by saying I'm quoting you because you brought up the Hobbit but none of what follows is aimed at you so feel free to reply if you'd like but also to ignore if you'd like as well.

I should also point out that I have not read the book of The Hobbit in it's entirety, though I've read some of it (probably about the first quarter of it). I'm certain this colors my perspective on the films.

When I first watched Lord of the Rings, hadn't read that book either. But I kind of had been meaning to get around to reading it. When Fellowship came out, I went to see it in the theater.

I thought it was just ok, and not really worthy of the praise it was getting at the time. I had no idea about any changes the movie had or hadn't made to the original story.

When Two Towers came out, I again went to see it in the theater. I thought it was so terrible and ridiculous I almost walked out. Still hadn't read anything Tolkien had ever written at that point.

Didn't even bother watching Return of the King when it came out. I caught bits and pieces of it on cable over the years.

When The Hobbit movies came out I didn't bother seeing those in the theater either. But when I caught them on cable, I thought they were very good. Much better than what I'd seen of Lord of the Rings.

And The Hobbit movies motivated me to go and read Lord of the Rings finally.

And I LOVE the book. It's fantastic. I can see why it's so popular, it's really brilliant.

So since then I've been reading LOTR with my son. And he loved the book as well. We just finished and are following it up by watching the movies.

It's the first time I'm watching the movies since reading the book. I've been excited to watch them because by reading the book it feels like the movies make MUCH more sense. I don't feel like they explain themselves well to someone who has no idea about the story or the characters or background or anything. Honestly I feel the Hobbit did a much better job of that

But here's the thing.

If people don't like the Hobbit it's fine, I don't care about that. It takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.

But my sense is that people shit on the Hobbit mostly because it changed the original story a LOT, something you are alluding to in your post.

But my sense is also that people praise The Lord of the Rings in general, and I noticed you didn't mention it here, while ignoring that the films changed a tremendous amount from the books, and most of the changes are really bad.

Now that I'm watching the films for the first time since I've read the book...

FUCK.

I get some of the changes like leaving out Tom Bombadil or the barrow wight or replacing Glorfindel with Arwen. I don't like it, but fine. I get that even with 4 hour movies you have to make some time concessions.

But some of the other changes, and one in particular especially, are nearly unforgivable.

The elves's involvement in the goings on and most egregiously some of the fighting is major and changes the whole tenor of the story. (Part of the whole point in the book was that the time of Elves was dying away and the age of man was dawning.)

Aragorn falling off of a cliff was pretty dumb.

Faramir being tempted by the ring and attempting to bring Frodo and Sam to Minas Tirith was really bad. That changes a lot about Faramir's character. Yes he had a change of heart but it was a big deal in the story that he was in contrast to Boromir.

And by far the biggest change for the worst is Frodo siding with Gollum and telling Sam to go home, going on without him.

That was so far out of character for both Sam and Frodo it changes the complexion of everything. Frodo never would have done that. And Sam never would have listened. For God sake Sam almost drowned before letting Frodo get away from him.

Peter Jackson just pisses on their relationship here, and shits on the audience for good measure.

And there are so many more shitty changes as well.

Which brings me to my point, and what I've been wondering lately since rewatching the LOTR movies.

Why do so many people shit all over the Hobbit about all the changes it made to the story, but far less people take umbrage with Lord of the Rings (and indeed it's frequently lauded) despite many egregious changes?

It honestly baffles me, because while I admittedly haven't read most of the Hobbit, I can't imagine the changes there are any worse than the worst of the LOTR changes.

So why are they regarded differently?

All that said, I am enjoying the LOTR movies now.
I actually agree with all of this. Read the books and then watched the movie and I hate how the movie tried to change stuff like you mentioned.
 

Smitty

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The Fellowship of the Ring was quite good. Probably not actually as good as I enjoyed it back in the day because of my love for the subject matter but it did come across as quite well done.

The second two were abysmal train wrecks of horrific dialogue, terrible acting and awful artistic interpretation of the source material. I’m actually ok with some changes like Arwen in for Glorfindel and removing Bombadil as long as it makes the movies otherwise GOOD, and in Fellowship I don’t think either of those changes were big detractors.

I have come to believe the first one was so “well done,” because it was relatively easy to focus on a straightforward “point A to point B,” story, and the four Hobbits and then the Fellowship had good chemistry and got good acting from Ian McKellan as Gandalf the Grey. Chris Lee as Saurman was also good in his role.

The second one, the plot gets more complex. You had to write dialogue for more complex characters. You had to bring in actors who ended up being terrible (Karl Urban, Bernard Hill, David Wenham, whoever played Denethor were all awful).

Aragorn was well cast as a brooding, quiet Ranger. When the actor had to act like a King he completely bombed. Hugo Weaving was bad as Elrond. McKellan as Gandalf the White somehow much worse, I don’t know if they told him to change his character but he was just not nearly as effective in the new character role. And they made a terrible decision to make Legolas and Gimli the comic relief.

They also realized how much money they could make halfway through and instead of gritty action sequences like the first one started making the battles into cartoonish campy summer blockbuster action.

It ruined them. The first movie is what the next two should have been but never were. Peter Jackson has also since proved that he was in over his head and is not really that good at anything he’s done.
 
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Sheik

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Did you know that in Tombstone when Val Kilmer says what we think is, "I'm your huckleberry" he isn't actually saying that. Back then the handles on the sides of caskets were called huckles, and what we call pall bearers they call huckle bearers. He is actually saying, "I'm your hucklebearer". Blew my mind when I found this out.
Fuck you for this. I mean, with everything going on, covid, Afghanistan, etc, you throw this out there?

Fuck yourself.
 

boozeman

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That actually looks pretty good.
They are really pushing the multiverse thing, which is smart. All kinds of rumors about Toby McGuire and the Raimi villains coming back. Already saw Alfred Molina.
 

Genghis Khan

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They are really pushing the multiverse thing, which is smart. All kinds of rumors about Toby McGuire and the Raimi villains coming back. Already saw Alfred Molina.

I hate it. A lot.

How can we make sure that there's no meaning to anything any character does, no real consequences, and at the same time make things as confusing as possible?

I know, multiverse!

It's dumb as shit.
 

boozeman

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I hate it. A lot.

How can we make sure that there's no meaning to anything any character does, no real consequences, and at the same time make things as confusing as possible?

I know, multiverse!

It's dumb as shit.
Well, like that's your opinion, man.
 

shoop

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I hate it. A lot.

How can we make sure that there's no meaning to anything any character does, no real consequences, and at the same time make things as confusing as possible?

I know, multiverse!

It's dumb as shit.
I have gotten to the point that I hate watching trailers. A couple of movies came out that I felt like I knew the entire plot before they hit the theaters. I stopped watching trailers for anything I knew I wanted to see anyway until close to release if at all.

so far marvel has handled the multiverse ok. If they screw the pooch at some point I will be upset.
 

Genghis Khan

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so far marvel has handled the multiverse ok.

Admittedly I haven't watched anything that came out after the last Avengers movie (Endgame?). Or the Spiderman animated one. I can't remember which was more recent.

But anyway, I thought they handled it poorly even in The Avengers, which pretty much means at the very beginning of introducing it. They saved THIS universe...do all the other people in other universes not matter?

The whole thing sits very poorly with me.
 

Cotton

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What was the last movie that made you cry?

My answer: Today, and it was We Are Marshall.

Such an incredibly done movie.
 

shoop

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If you like Ryan Reynolds or video games do yourself a favor and go watch free guy. Hilarious, great writing, one of the best movie I have seen in years. for a comedy
 

Cowboysrock55

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If you like Ryan Reynolds or video games do yourself a favor and go watch free guy. Hilarious, great writing, one of the best movie I have seen in years. for a comedy
Did you go to the theater to watch it?
 
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