My top two were always LT and Montana. Hard to compare QBs to everyone else, but that's what I always thought (pre Brady) . LT is the best defensive player I've ever seen.
The 70s are a bad era for QB recognition.
But Jesus, you have Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Stabler. I just think they all are slept on.
It was a revolutionary offense at the time. Always makes it hard to judge.I don't know about Montana.
I'll give him his proppers and say he was a great QB.
But GOAT?
I don't want to dock a guy for the system he played in, but that WCO really makes QBs look good. And SF was one of the only ones running it at the time.
Personally, I'd have Montana pretty high but I'd have (at least) Marino, Elway, and yes Brady ahead of him.
He was just so great under pressure.. I mean, I hated him too, that goes without saying, but he really was great.I don't know about Montana.
I'll give him his proppers and say he was a great QB.
But GOAT?
I don't want to dock a guy for the system he played in, but that WCO really makes QBs look good. And SF was one of the only ones running it at the time.
This is the issue. I don't know where I'd put Staubach in a top 100, so in a vacuum it's hard for me to complain about his ranking per se.Ranked at 77.... Ted Hendricks.
He wasn't the precision passer that Troy was. He had a terrible day throwing the ball in a 1976 playoff loss to the Rams, and that pass to Jackie Smith was hardly between the numbers. Still, he was Captain Comeback -- a hero to a generation.Staubach had panache, but I don't think you could say he was this like razor sharp guy as a passer.
Year | Age | Tm | Pos | No. | G | GS | QBrec | Att | Y/A+ | NY/A+ | AY/A+ | ANY/A+ | Cmp%+ | TD%+ | Int%+ | Sack%+ | Rate+ |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1970 | 28 | DAL | 12 | 8 | 3 | 2-1-0 | 82 | 97 | 74 | 74 | 66 | 107 | 80 | 62 | 40 | 76 | |
1971* | 29 | DAL | QB | 12 | 13 | 10 | 10-0-0 | 211 | 139 | 128 | 147 | 139 | 125 | 128 | 132 | 90 | 144 |
1973 | 31 | DAL | QB | 12 | 14 | 14 | 10-4-0 | 286 | 136 | 119 | 131 | 121 | 133 | 135 | 100 | 76 | 134 |
1974 | 32 | DAL | QB | 12 | 14 | 14 | 8-6-0 | 360 | 109 | 103 | 108 | 105 | 101 | 91 | 110 | 84 | 104 |
1975* | 33 | DAL | QB | 12 | 13 | 13 | 9-4-0 | 348 | 116 | 115 | 114 | 114 | 113 | 107 | 105 | 94 | 113 |
1976* | 34 | DAL | QB | 12 | 14 | 14 | 11-3-0 | 369 | 112 | 115 | 118 | 120 | 112 | 97 | 123 | 108 | 116 |
1977* | 35 | DAL | QB | 12 | 14 | 14 | 12-2-0 | 361 | 111 | 113 | 123 | 124 | 117 | 110 | 130 | 105 | 125 |
1978* | 36 | DAL | QB | 12 | 15 | 15 | 11-4-0 | 413 | 123 | 123 | 128 | 129 | 110 | 124 | 115 | 105 | 126 |
1979* | 37 | DAL | QB | 12 | 16 | 16 | 11-5-0 | 461 | 120 | 120 | 133 | 133 | 111 | 121 | 131 | 101 | 132 |
I won’t argue if Lawrence Taylor is #1. He’s my #2.I agree.
People forget, Taylor stepped on the field as a rookie and was the best guy at what he did. Almost instantly. No faggy Jerry Rice hiccups.
Honestly a QB should be number 1. Just the way the NFL is.Sorry, but I don't think any WR can be the best football player in history.
Owens.And Rice was great, but Moss and Owens dominated regardless of who the QB was and they were clearly more physically talented.
I get your point, but then shouldn’t the top 3 or 5 be all QBs?Honestly a QB should be number 1. Just the way the NFL is.
As for the article and ranking, I'm disappointed that this all-star cast of the Athletic didn't provide harder hitting analysis of why he's only #78. Maybe they'll do this once the full list is released.
Anyhow, the Athletic states an 11-year career, but they don't go further to say that Staubach's career is really only 8 years worth due to 2 years on the bench (1969 and 1970 only had 4 starts combined) and 1 year injured (1972). Drafted in 1964, Staubach had approx 6 years of stats accumulation taken away.
Nobody ever accounts for these six years. Maybe that's why the Athletic only has Staubach as #78. Will more recent QBs be regarded/placed higher than Staubach because the bloated passing stats of today show it and, furthermore, while Staubach fronted them 6 years head-start? That's BS.
So, I'm going to do something that I've never seen anywhere else, though, and try to better represent Staubach's total career statistics as if he wasn't an American hero, but just a Heisman-winning QB drafted in 1964. Landry famously didn't like rookies starting, so I'm tossing out 1964 and assuming Staubach would've started his Heisman winner in 1965. I'm still keeping his injured 1972 season the same.
Anyhow, I admit I'm still underestimating Staubach's career achievements, milestones, stats and ranking because all I'm doing is adding Don Meredith's and Craig Morton's stats from 1965 to 1970, representing the 77 games Staubach "missed". Easy stretch to say Staubach would've put up better stats than Morton and Meredith (and possibly won more NFCC and SBs).
Later on, I'll try to put a Staubach factor onto 1965 to 1970, but for now, I'm interested to see where Staubach would be with a full 14 starting years under his belt. Even moreso, today's 16 vs yesterday's 14 games per regular season robs Staubach of 12 regular season games (1965-1970), too.
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First number is actual stats/rank while numbers in (parentheses) is the adjusted stats/rank. Added some QB names to provide quick context.
Resume:
Super Bowl Appearances: 4, #T2 with Montana, Bradshaw, Kelly (5, #3)
NFCC Appearances: 5, #T5 behind Brady, Montana, Elway, Bradshaw and tied with Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Manning, McNabb, Favre, Kelly, Stabler (8, #2)
Regular Season Wins: 85, #T38 with Matt Hasselbeck (142, #8 behind Dan Marino)
Stats as of Today:
Completions: 1685, #103 behind Jake Delhomme (2776, #36 behind Russell Wilson)
Yards: 22700, #94 behind Andrew Luck (39783, #23 behind Joe Montana)
TDs: 153, #89 behind Jeff Garcia (294, #T13 with Carson Palmer behind John Elway)
Stats as of 2010:
Completions: 1685,#82 (2776, #21)
Yards: 22700, #74 (39783, #13)
TDs: 153, #58 (294, #6)
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Overall...while the stats bump is significant, I don't know if it'd have an affect on Staubach's legacy. However, more importantly, though, Meredith/Morton lost two NFCC to the Packers in addition to reaching Super Bowl V. Three close games the Cowboys lost without Staubach. Given how close these three games were, what if...
A fourth SB appearance for Super Bowl V and possibly a third SB ring. Then, getting a sixth or seventh Super Bowl appearance if we beat the Packers once to reach Super Bowl I and/or II; maybe that's four or five SB rings.
At worst, this 2-3 Super Bowl record (assuming SB V loss) puts Staubach on par with Elway. However a win at 3-2, or 4-2 record would elevate Staubach ahead of everyone sans Brady, Bradshaw and Montana. I'm not going to say 5-2 best-case scenario. This is a stark contrast to people not uncommonly putting Favre, Peyton, Marino, Elway in front of Staubach.
So what criteria do you use to say who is the best QB?I don't think Brady is the best football player of all time. Far from it, actually. I don't even think he was the best QB.
Winningest? Sure. Best? Nope.
I look at it as who’s in your tier.So what criteria do you use to say who is the best QB?
Post more (like this), seriously.As for the article and ranking, I'm disappointed that this all-star cast of the Athletic didn't provide harder hitting analysis of why he's only #78. Maybe they'll do this once the full list is released.
Anyhow, the Athletic states an 11-year career, but they don't go further to say that Staubach's career is really only 8 years worth due to 2 years on the bench (1969 and 1970 only had 4 starts combined) and 1 year injured (1972). Drafted in 1964, Staubach had approx 6 years of stats accumulation taken away.
Nobody ever accounts for these six years. Maybe that's why the Athletic only has Staubach as #78. Will more recent QBs be regarded/placed higher than Staubach because the bloated passing stats of today show it and, furthermore, while Staubach fronted them 6 years head-start? That's BS.
So, I'm going to do something that I've never seen anywhere else and better represent Staubach's total career statistics as if he wasn't an American hero, but just a Heisman-winning QB drafted in 1964. Landry famously didn't like rookies starting, so I'm tossing out 1964 and assuming Staubach would've started his Heisman winner in 1965. I'm still keeping his injured 1972 season the same.
Anyhow, I admit I'm still underestimating Staubach's career achievements, milestones, stats and ranking because all I'm doing is adding Don Meredith's and Craig Morton's stats from 1965 to 1970, representing the 77 games Staubach "missed". Easy stretch to say Staubach would've put up better stats than Morton and Meredith (and possibly won more NFCC and SBs).
Later on, I'll try to put a Staubach factor onto 1965 to 1970, but for now, I'm interested to see where Staubach would be with a full 14 starting years under his belt. Even moreso, today's 16 vs yesterday's 14 games per regular season robs Staubach of 12 regular season games (1965-1970), too.
-----
First number is actual stats/rank while numbers in (parentheses) is the adjusted stats/rank. Added some QB names to provide quick context.
Resume:
Super Bowl Appearances: 4, #T3 with Montana, Bradshaw, Kelly and behind Elway (5, #T2)
NFCC Appearances: 5, #T5 behind Brady, Montana, Elway, Bradshaw and tied with Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Manning, McNabb, Favre, Kelly, Stabler (8, #2)
Regular Season Wins: 85, #T38 with Matt Hasselbeck (142, #8 behind Dan Marino)
Stats and Rankings as of Today:
Completions: 1685, #103 behind Jake Delhomme (2776, #36 behind Russell Wilson)
Yards: 22700, #94 behind Andrew Luck (39783, #23 behind Joe Montana)
TDs: 153, #89 behind Jeff Garcia (294, #T13 with Carson Palmer behind John Elway)
Stats and Rankings as of 2010 (to depict Staubach’s ranking before the bloated stats of the last ten years):
Completions: 1685,#82 (2776, #21)
Yards: 22700, #74 (39783, #13)
TDs: 153, #58 (294, #6)
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Overall...while the stats bump is significant, I’m not confident it'd significantly elevate Staubach's legacy. More importantly, though, the Cowboys lost two NFCC to the Packers in addition to reaching Super Bowl V during Staubach’s age 24, 25 and 28. Three close games the Cowboys lost starting Meredith/Morton. Given how close these three games were, what if we had Staubach for those three games?
Staubach at least gets a fifth SB appearance for Super Bowl V and possibly a third SB ring. Then, maybe getting a sixth or seventh Super Bowl appearance if we beat the Packers to reach Super Bowl I and/or II; maybe that's four or five SB rings for Staubach.
At worst, this 2-3 Super Bowl record (still assuming SB V loss) puts Staubach on par with Elway. However a win at 3-2, or 4-2 record would elevate Staubach ahead of everyone sans Brady, tied with Bradshaw and Montana. I'm not going to say 5-2 best-case scenario, but 3-2, 3-3 or 4-2 is rarified air. This would push up Staubach’s legacy and ranking whereas today it’s not uncommon for ppl to rank Favre (1-1 SB), Peyton (2-1 SB), Marino (0-1 SB) and Elway in front of Staubach.
Even within our own fanbase, think about how 3 SB rings would affect Cowboys fans with some believing Aikman is the greatest franchise QB because of 3 rings. If Staubach were at least 3-2, it’s undisputed Staubach.