John Madden Passes at 85

data

Forbes #1
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The team was springing leaks like the Titanic. Watching that game is too much of a reminder how they were coming to a crashing halt as a dominant or even a good NFL team, and that their contending days were over.

In fact it was even kind of obvious in the Packers game. You could see them laboring to finish that one.

In the Steelers game you just saw a team with a handful of super talented guys that just didn't have the energy to really compete anymore. Too many holes in the roster from free agent defections with poor drafts failing to fill it back in, too many guys who had been-there-done-that before, and had stayed out partying too much the week before, too many guys on drugs, too many guys making too much money to really care for the game, too many guys had too many miles and injuries to get that far into the season at the same level of play (look at the team week 1 against the Giants for a comparison). And the coach was old and tired himself more than anyone, with too much college success to really be living or dying with the outcome of that game.

They were just going through the motions and it showed. Jimmy never would have let them do that - but fair enough, part of the reason Jimmy wasn't there coaching them was because he didn't want to do it anymore either and needed a break, needed out of Dallas.

The Steelers were a team, and were playing like a team, and gave us all we could handle. Scraping by one win in that fashion is nothing to be ashamed of, but the frustrating part of it all was that you could see the Cowboys, as a team, were spent and everyone watching knew it.

Troy Aikman was merely 29. Emmitt was 26. Irvin was 29. Sanders was 28.

The team was starting to age but a competent general manager would have figured out how to re-tool that team, sacrifice a down year or two, move on from some unproductive aging players, get draft picks, draft well, and gear up for another run around 1998 or so until 2002. With a Jimmy-quality GM I suspect you could have seen Aikman and Smith playing well into their mid-30s and winning division titles for Dallas. Maybe another late-career Super Bowl run. Deion was one who should have been jettisoned for a haul way earlier - he was just one position - a corner, and one who didn't even get many interceptions by that time, he was super, super expensive, he would have brought in a treasure trove of assets, and I don't think he was a very good influence at that time in his career.

Instead Jones clung to the core like grim death and the team withered on the vine. And that Steelers Super Bowl was really the last gasp. Going 10-6 in 1996 and again in 1998 on the backs of aging stars who couldn't be great by themselves anymore was just painful, and a reminder that they should have been supplemented with new stars instead of just trying to plug leaks around them to replicate 1993 again.
Would’ve loved just one more SB. Would really have solidified it with the 60s Packers, 80s 49ers, Steelers 70s and 21st century Patriots. This dynasty just didn’t age or end gracefully like the others. The way it ended just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
 

ZeroClub

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The onside kick made it closer than it had to be, but they more or less completely shut our offense down in the second half. We were basically holding on for dear life. You asked for miracles? I give you the FBI Neil O'Donnell.
It was a strange game. Cowboys lost time of possession and total yardage statistics in part because they converted a couple of turnovers into touchdowns so quickly. Between that and the onside kick, it seemed like the Steelers held the ball forever.
 

data

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Anyway, happy to have what we had. Our high 92/93 was as high as any other dynasty, even if it didn’t end as graciously as the others.
 

data

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It was a strange game. Cowboys lost time of possession and total yardage statistics in part because they converted a couple of turnovers into touchdowns so quickly. Between that and the onside kick, it seemed like the Steelers held the ball forever.
We were so close to blowing the doors off that game, too. Irvin bonafide OPI, but if that wasn’t called, would’ve been 17-0.
 

bbgun

please don't "dur" me
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It was a strange game. Cowboys lost time of possession and total yardage statistics in part because they converted a couple of turnovers into touchdowns so quickly. Between that and the onside kick, it seemed like the Steelers held the ball forever.
If Irvin doesn't get called for that pushoff (which negated a TD), we might've put it away early.
 

data

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Madden also loved him some Leon Lett. Did Madden coin his nickname The Big Cat

random Madden commentary over a Cowboys game
 

bbgun

please don't "dur" me
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I forgot that he hated to fly. Wonder how many miles he put on that bus.
 

Sheik

DCC 4Life
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My most vivid memory of the last SB win was that my Dad’s brother-in-law got so drunk and pissed off that Dallas won, he went to his house and got a golf club and tried to beat my dad with it.

Then like an hour later he came back crying and wanted to give my dad a hug.
 

Smitty

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I always think to myself how things might have been different had Jimmy been cajoled into staying, how that team might have fared from 1996-2000 had we acquired guys like Sam Madison (44th in 1997), Patrick Surtain (44th in 1998), Jason Taylor (73rd in 1997) and Zach Thomas (156th in 1996) on our defense, as Jimmy kinda "found," all those guys after the first round for Miami. Yeah, Jimmy struggled to find another WR so you have to think the team might have struggled on offense finding a replacement for Irvin, but maybe in that case they land Randy Moss, too.

Think about the following scenario: Jerry throws every last asset and every kow-towing trick in the book at Jimmy to get him to stay after 1993, signing him to a new long term (5 year) contract.

The Cowboys are prepared for the 1994 NFCC and win in, and destroy the Chargers. The Cowboys also win yet again in 1995 though the team is still running on fumes by that point as free agency defections were unpreventable (Harper, Stepnoski, James Washington, Thomas Everett, Russell Maryland, Robert Jones all still depart by the 1994 or 1995 offseasons). They go down in history not just as the unquestioned team of the 90s, but every bit as on-par with the 80's 49ers and 70's Steelers, having won four Super Bowls not just in a decade but in a row.

In 1996 the team has a 10-6 like down year and following the season, Jimmy realizes they have to re-tool. He trades Deion Sanders to the Denver Broncos, who just finished 13-3 themselves and are trying to get over the hump, for 1997 and 1998 first round picks. In the 1997 draft the Cowboys take LB Jamie Sharper at 22 with their own pick, and with Denver's pick (28) they select Sam Madison.

* Side note, they don't need to select LaFleur at 22 in 1997, because in the 1995 draft, they select Ken Dilger at 46 instead of Sherman Williams, and between their picks at 59 and 63 with which in real life they took Shane Hannah and Kendell Watkins, they manage to stumble into Emmitt Smith clone Curtis Martin, who Jimmy recognizes as another too-small, too-slow but productive NFL runner.

In 1997 the team does not bottom out at 6-10. It is mid-retool, including still needing to re-stock the DL with the departure of Haley and the aging of guys like Tolbert and Leon Lett, and the OL is getting older as well. It does, however, have rookie Jason Taylor that it selected in the second round instead of Dexter Coakley, who it didn't' need because it had Jamie Sharper at OLB already, not to mention Zach Thomas who it found in the the third round in 1996 instead of Mike Ulafale.

Heading into the 1998 draft, the Cowboys have their own pick somewhere in the late teens, and also Denver's pick at 30 as they won the 1997 Super Bowl with Deion Sanders on the team.

With Jimmy there to guide the ship, Dallas feels empowered to select Randy Moss at 18 at history is re-written. With Denver's pick, who in real life selected WR Marcus Nash, Dallas doesn't need WR and goes with Patrick Surtain. With Dallas's own second they still manage to snag the falling, deaf-in-one-ear Flozell Adams.

The 1998 Dallas Cowboys have just come off two mediocre seasons in 1996 and 1997, but are now loaded with the following core -

Skill positions:

QB 32 year old Troy Aikman

RB1 29 year old Emmitt Smith
RB2 26 year old Curtis Martin, who has dazzled as Smith's backup but has one year remaining on his rookie contract

TE 27 year old Ken Dilger

WR1 32 year old Michael Irvin
WR2 21 year old Randy Moss
WR3 25 year old Patrick Jeffers who the team can re-sign as it's third WR since it has a little cap space with Deion's departure



OL (has solid bookend tackles but needs to continue to work on interior OL, but I bet they never end up with Clay Shiver either):

27 year old Larry Allen
23 year old Flozell Adams

Defense:

RE 24 year old Jason Taylor
LE journeyman DE FA signing (or perhaps someone like Phillip Daniels or Jevon Langford, taken in the fourth round after in real life Dallas blew a pick on Stepfret Williams in the late third).
DT 30 year old Leon Lett
DT 33 year old Chad Hennings

OLB 24 year old Jamie Sharper
MLB 25 year old Zach Thomas
OLB 25 year old Randall Godfrey

CB 24 year old Sam Madison
CB 22 year old Patrick Surtain
SS 29 year old Darren Woodson
FS 28 Brock Marion, who re-signs with Dallas instead of being lured to Miami to play for Johnson, and whose contract can be afforded with the jettisoning of Sanders and Kevin Smith, who Jimmy notices quickly declining and cuts for too many penalties.

This team gears up for another run of defensive dominance. With Aikman having three quality targets to throw to in 1998 instead of zero by the end of that season in real life, the Cowboys go 13-3 and beat Deion Sanders, John Elway and the Broncos in the Super Bowl.

And with Randy Moss absolutely taking over the league and Troy Aikman not taking a pounding due to his plethora of targets, no end is in sight.
 

Texas Ace

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My most vivid memory of the last SB win was that my Dad’s brother-in-law got so drunk and pissed off that Dallas won, he went to his house and got a golf club and tried to beat my dad with it.

Then like an hour later he came back crying and wanted to give my dad a hug.
:lol

What a story.
 

NoDak

Hotlinking' sonofabitch
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
23,024
I always think to myself how things might have been different had Jimmy been cajoled into staying, how that team might have fared from 1996-2000 had we acquired guys like Sam Madison (44th in 1997), Patrick Surtain (44th in 1998), Jason Taylor (73rd in 1997) and Zach Thomas (156th in 1996) on our defense, as Jimmy kinda "found," all those guys after the first round for Miami. Yeah, Jimmy struggled to find another WR so you have to think the team might have struggled on offense finding a replacement for Irvin, but maybe in that case they land Randy Moss, too.

Think about the following scenario: Jerry throws every last asset and every kow-towing trick in the book at Jimmy to get him to stay after 1993, signing him to a new long term (5 year) contract.

The Cowboys are prepared for the 1994 NFCC and win in, and destroy the Chargers. The Cowboys also win yet again in 1995 though the team is still running on fumes by that point as free agency defections were unpreventable (Harper, Stepnoski, James Washington, Thomas Everett, Russell Maryland, Robert Jones all still depart by the 1994 or 1995 offseasons). They go down in history not just as the unquestioned team of the 90s, but every bit as on-par with the 80's 49ers and 70's Steelers, having won four Super Bowls not just in a decade but in a row.

In 1996 the team has a 10-6 like down year and following the season, Jimmy realizes they have to re-tool. He trades Deion Sanders to the Denver Broncos, who just finished 13-3 themselves and are trying to get over the hump, for 1997 and 1998 first round picks. In the 1997 draft the Cowboys take LB Jamie Sharper at 22 with their own pick, and with Denver's pick (28) they select Sam Madison.

* Side note, they don't need to select LaFleur at 22 in 1997, because in the 1995 draft, they select Ken Dilger at 46 instead of Sherman Williams, and between their picks at 59 and 63 with which in real life they took Shane Hannah and Kendell Watkins, they manage to stumble into Emmitt Smith clone Curtis Martin, who Jimmy recognizes as another too-small, too-slow but productive NFL runner.

In 1997 the team does not bottom out at 6-10. It is mid-retool, including still needing to re-stock the DL with the departure of Haley and the aging of guys like Tolbert and Leon Lett, and the OL is getting older as well. It does, however, have rookie Jason Taylor that it selected in the second round instead of Dexter Coakley, who it didn't' need because it had Jamie Sharper at OLB already, not to mention Zach Thomas who it found in the the third round in 1996 instead of Mike Ulafale.

Heading into the 1998 draft, the Cowboys have their own pick somewhere in the late teens, and also Denver's pick at 30 as they won the 1997 Super Bowl with Deion Sanders on the team.

With Jimmy there to guide the ship, Dallas feels empowered to select Randy Moss at 18 at history is re-written. With Denver's pick, who in real life selected WR Marcus Nash, Dallas doesn't need WR and goes with Patrick Surtain. With Dallas's own second they still manage to snag the falling, deaf-in-one-ear Flozell Adams.

The 1998 Dallas Cowboys have just come off two mediocre seasons in 1996 and 1997, but are now loaded with the following core -

Skill positions:

QB 32 year old Troy Aikman

RB1 29 year old Emmitt Smith
RB2 26 year old Curtis Martin, who has dazzled as Smith's backup but has one year remaining on his rookie contract

TE 27 year old Ken Dilger

WR1 32 year old Michael Irvin
WR2 21 year old Randy Moss
WR3 25 year old Patrick Jeffers who the team can re-sign as it's third WR since it has a little cap space with Deion's departure



OL (has solid bookend tackles but needs to continue to work on interior OL, but I bet they never end up with Clay Shiver either):

27 year old Larry Allen
23 year old Flozell Adams

Defense:

RE 24 year old Jason Taylor
LE journeyman DE FA signing (or perhaps someone like Phillip Daniels or Jevon Langford, taken in the fourth round after in real life Dallas blew a pick on Stepfret Williams in the late third).
DT 30 year old Leon Lett
DT 33 year old Chad Hennings

OLB 24 year old Jamie Sharper
MLB 25 year old Zach Thomas
OLB 25 year old Randall Godfrey

CB 24 year old Sam Madison
CB 22 year old Patrick Surtain
SS 29 year old Darren Woodson
FS 28 Brock Marion, who re-signs with Dallas instead of being lured to Miami to play for Johnson, and whose contract can be afforded with the jettisoning of Sanders and Kevin Smith, who Jimmy notices quickly declining and cuts for too many penalties.

This team gears up for another run of defensive dominance. With Aikman having three quality targets to throw to in 1998 instead of zero by the end of that season in real life, the Cowboys go 13-3 and beat Deion Sanders, John Elway and the Broncos in the Super Bowl.

And with Randy Moss absolutely taking over the league and Troy Aikman not taking a pounding due to his plethora of targets, no end is in sight.
They don’t drug test at your firm, eh?


Just kidding. Interesting read. I too like to dream about Jimmy staying sometimes.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
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Even the postgame celebration was kind of a turnoff. The first song the PA played after the final gun was ‘Can’t Buy Me Love’ Beatles. What the fuck?
How the fuck do you people remember shit like this?
 
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