Abortion... yeah or nah?

[boozeman]

Maybe if the wait list wasn't so ridiculously long and the process so obnoxiously expensive, adoption would be a lot more appealing to people.

Again, the list is only long because this is not like ordering a cheeseburger.

Sorry, you can't get the cute baby you want. You get crack babies, those born with defects, wrong color, etc.

The expense part is probably a contributing factor. But again, it is all about what they want. Thousands of dollars for a healthy baby.

You can adopt a kid from foster care for next to nothing. And I can assure you, if this becomes a nationwide law, they better enhance what is a very broken and shitty foster care system.

And guess what? That's more tax money too and I have zero doubt those who are in favor of banning abortions are also against paying for that kind of social program addition.

You can't fucking have it both ways.

Again, people just ignore the consequences just so they can feel morally justified.

 

[NoDak]

You can adopt a kid from foster care for next to nothing.

Not true. I have a close family member that works in social services with foster kids and deals directly with child placement in foster care and adoption. It's a long and expensive process. Maybe not the same as private adoption, but not nearly as cheap and easy as you are trying to make it sound here.

My oldest daughter has also adopted a boy that is now five years old that she's cared for from birth as a foster baby. He was a twin and came from a mother that was addicted to methamphetamines and other drugs. Lucas was born with gastroschisis, his intestines outside his body. And was in withdrawals from meth for the first few weeks of his life. (his twin sister was fine, aside from the addiction withdrawals) He is fine now but had some pretty serious medical issues the first year of his life. My daughters adoption experience and expenses certainly were not like you say, 'next to nothing' in the foster care system. And she obviously didn't get to chose from the cream of the crop. Oh, and even though she's had him since birth, his adoption wasn't final until after his fourth birthday.

 

[boozeman]

Not true. I have a close family member that works in social services with foster kids and deals directly with child placement in foster care and adoption. It's a long and expensive process. Maybe not the same as private adoption, but not nearly as cheap and easy as you are trying to make it sound here.

My oldest daughter has also adopted a boy that is now five years old that she's cared for from birth as a foster baby. He was a twin and came from a mother that was addicted to methamphetamines and other drugs. Lucas was born with gastroschisis, his intestines outside his body. And was in withdrawals from meth for the first few weeks of his life. (his twin sister was fine, aside from the addiction withdrawals) He is fine now but had some pretty serious medical issues the first year of his life. My daughters adoption experience and expenses certainly were not like you say, 'next to nothing' in the foster care system. And she obviously didn't get to chose from the cream of the crop. Oh, and even though she's had him since birth, his adoption wasn't final until after his fourth birthday.

That may be a factor of where the adoption is.

My brother in law has adopted two children in the state of Utah and it was a very quick and relatively inexpensive process that finished in less than two years in one case and a year and a half in the other.

That is also part of what I am getting at. Bureaucracy is horrific now. Imagine if you flooded the gates with 600,000 or so more children, most of which are not exactly the "cream of the crop".

And the other thing I don't get, abortion rates are actually declining, not increasing.

This is quite simply a power play by the evangelical right, mainly because they see it as a window of opportunity due to the Supreme Court advantage. I guess it is all about payback.

 

[NoDak]

My brother in law has adopted two children in the state of Utah and it was a very quick and relatively inexpensive process that finished in less than two years in one case and a year and a half in the other.

And that goes back to my original point. You think that is very quick. I think that's painfully slow. Why does it have to be that long? Seriously, how long does it take to file some papers? Move this shit along. If things didn't drag out like a God damned ice age, maybe interest in adoption would pick up.

And the other thing I don't get, abortion rates are actually declining, not increasing.

Again. Speed things up, cut costs, and I'd be willing to bet interest in adoption would rise. Which would then show us a difference in other social services provided.

 

[boozeman]

And that goes back to my original point. You think that is very quick. I think that's painfully slow. Why does it have to be that long? Seriously, how long does it take to file some papers? Move this shit along. If things didn't drag out like a God damned ice age, maybe interest in adoption would pick up.


Again. Speed things up, cut costs, and I'd be willing to bet interest in adoption would rise. Which would then show us a difference in other social services provided.

I don't think adoption is a viable solution. Even if it were quick and cheap.

Who wants to adopt a meth baby? An infant born with a massive birth defect because the mother who carried it full term was even more irresponsible during pregnancy?

I am not even getting into the burden for government provided prenatal care.

 

[NoDak]

I don't think adoption is a viable solution. Even if it were quick and cheap.

Who wants to adopt a meth baby? An infant born with a massive birth defect because the mother who carried it full term was even more irresponsible during pregnancy?

I am not even getting into the burden for government provided prenatal care.

I'm not saying it's a solution. Only that it's retarded for it to be as difficult and expensive as it is now. It helping out other social programs as a side effect would just be a nice added bonus.

 

[boozeman]

I'm not saying it's a solution. Only that it's retarded for it to be as difficult and expensive as it is now. It helping out other social programs as a side effect would just be a nice added bonus.

Okay. It is a broken process now that you acknowledge.

You trust the litigators and politicians in this country to fix it if this becomes the law?

If so, you really have a lot more faith in this country's elected leadership than I do.

 

[Cotton]

So, instead of fixing the adoption process let's just kill more babies. I mean, that's the only common sense humane thing thing to do, right?

 

[boozeman]

 

[Angrymesscan]

So, instead of fixing the adoption process let's just kill more babies. I mean, that's the only common sense humane thing thing to do, right?

And you think fixing the adoption process will eliminate abortions???
I'm pretty sure there are a lot more kids in the system than names on the adoption waiting list.

 

[Cotton]

And you think fixing the adoption process will eliminate abortions???
I'm pretty sure there are a lot more kids in the system than names on the adoption waiting list.

Fixing the abortion process is just one piece that could lower the number of abortions.

 

[boozeman]

Fixing the abortion process is just one piece that could lower the number of abortions.

wut

 

[Kbrown]

Cynical bullshit.

 

[Cotton]

wut

Birth control, sex education, morals, etc all need to be improved as well.

 

[Cotton]

Cynical bullshit.

Pretty much.

 

[Angrymesscan]

Birth control, sex education, morals, etc all need to be improved as well.

So now you're a big believer in abstinence? Or what "morals" are you referring to?

 

[Cotton]

So now you're a big believer in abstinence? Or what "morals" are you referring to?

There is a massive middle ground in between abstinence and promiscuity.

 

[boozeman]

There is a massive middle ground in between abstinence and promiscuity.

So wait, those that have abortions are mostly promiscuous?

 

[Cotton]

So wait, those that have abortions are mostly promiscuous?

God damn, I hate when people argue like this. Nowhere in that post did I say that.

 

[boozeman]

God damn, I hate when people argue like this. Nowhere in that post did I say that.

You actually brought promiscuity into it, like it has relevance.