2021 Season | Week 12 | Gameday Chatter Thread | Raiders @ Cowboys | 11/25/21

[T-RO]

You only have so many years to develop your passing skills. He could be a really good passer if they gave him better targets.

Some games he's a good passer, but he's not consistent.

Ravens added Sammy Watkins in free agency and drafted Rashod Bateman in 1st round. They already had Hollywood Brown and top-five NFL tight end. So I don't know if the issue is a lack of targets.

 

[ravidubey]

Some games he's a good passer, but he's not consistent.

Ravens added Sammy Watkins in free agency and drafted Rashod Bateman in 1st round. They already had Hollywood Brown and top-five NFL tight end. So I don't know if the issue is a lack of targets.

LOL
If those were Dak’s targets, he wouldn’t have made it to this big payday. And every Cowboys fan would be irate to say the least.

Dallas went and got Amari Cooper… huge difference. Turned that season (and Dak’s career) around.

Andrews is Jackson’s only reliable receiving target. The rest he has to make happen.

I remember the playoff game of Jackson’s MVP season, no receiver wanted to catch the ball. Today’s WRs are a step up in Baltimore on paper from that prior group, but none of them are on the field.

They lead the AFC only because of Jackson, and mainly because of his legs

 

[boozeman]

LOL
If those were Dak’s targets, he wouldn’t have made it to this big payday. And every Cowboys fan would be irate to say the least.

Dallas went and got Amari Cooper… huge difference. Turned that season (and Dak’s career) around.

Andrews is Jackson’s only reliable receiving target. The rest he has to make happen.

I remember the playoff game of Jackson’s MVP season, no receiver wanted to catch the ball. Today’s WRs are a step up in Baltimore on paper from that prior group, but none of them are on the field.

They lead the AFC only because of Jackson, and mainly because of his legs

Their defense keeps them afloat.

 

[ravidubey]

Their defense keeps them afloat.

They’ve been great for sure, but I wouldn’t put them up with NE or Buffalo

 

[T-RO]

LOL
If those were Dak’s targets, he wouldn’t have made it to this big payday. And every Cowboys fan would be irate to say the least.

Dallas went and got Amari Cooper… huge difference. Turned that season (and Dak’s career) around.

Andrews is Jackson’s only reliable receiving target. The rest he has to make happen.

I remember the playoff game of Jackson’s MVP season, no receiver wanted to catch the ball. Today’s WRs are a step up in Baltimore on paper from that prior group, but none of them are on the field.

They lead the AFC only because of Jackson, and mainly because of his legs

Haven't watched a lot of Ravens football. Maybe you are right.
...then again:

PFF rates Marquise Brown higher than Cooper. Lamb is better than Watkins, but that's offset with Andrews.

 

[data]

Haven't watched a lot of Ravens football. Maybe you are right.
...then again:

PFF rates Marquise Brown higher than Cooper. Lamb is better than Watkins, but that's offset with Andrews.

PFF is gospel around here, especially when it supports your claim.

 

[T-RO]

PFF is gospel around here, especially when it supports your claim.

I certainly wouldn't deploy PFF if it caused me Cog-Dis, right? ;)

I started the last post saying maybe ravidubey was right. :)

I don't watch the Ravens much so I defer to PFF, as they critique every play. I also see Hollywood Marquise Brown has 60 receptions for 770 yards...bigger numbers than Coop.

Sometimes I think Lamar is top five QB...sometimes I think he sucks. He confounds me. This whole season confounds me as Wilson and Allen and Mahomes and Prescott and Herbert feature such variance week to week. Don't look like the same quarterbacks one game to the next.

 

[shoop]

I certainly wouldn't deploy PFF if it caused me Cog-Dis, right? ;)

I started the last post saying maybe ravidubey was right. :)

I don't watch the Ravens much so I defer to PFF, as they critique every play. I also see Hollywood Marquise Brown has 60 receptions for 770 yards...bigger numbers than Coop.

Sometimes I think Lamar is top five QB...sometimes I think he sucks. He confounds me. This whole season confounds me as Wilson and Allen and Mahomes and Prescott and Herbert feature such variance week to week. Don't look like the same quarterbacks one game to the next.

Lamar Is a top 15 quarterback and a top 5 running back. That’s where his danger lies.
PFF has been a joke. This has been pointed out repeatedly on this board. The subjectivity of some of their rankings is severely slanted.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Sometimes I think Lamar is top five QB...sometimes I think he sucks.

That's because he does both of those things.

He confounds me. This whole season confounds me as Wilson and Allen and Mahomes and Prescott and Herbert feature such variance week to week. Don't look like the same quarterbacks one game to the next.

The whole league seems more like that this year than I ever remember. Sure, there were always upsets, the best teams always had lulls at some point in a long season... but it seems more widespread and extreme this year for some reason.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That's because he does both of those things.

The whole league seems more like that this year than I ever remember. Sure, there were always upsets, the best teams always had lulls at some point in a long season... but it seems more widespread and extreme this year for some reason.

I think part of it is the horrible inconsistency in officiating. One week you can mug receivers like nobodies business. The next week you can't breath on the receiver without a 40 yard PI.

 

[ravidubey]

PFF rates Marquise Brown higher than Cooper. Lamb is better than Watkins, but that's offset with Andrews.

Put it this way... would you make that trade-- Cooper, Lamb, and Schultz for Brown, Watkins, and Andrews-- even for a single season?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Put it this way... would you make that trade-- Cooper, Lamb, and Schultz for Brown, Watkins, and Andrews-- even for a single season?

No but I would trade Gallup, Wilson and Brown for that group. So which game are we talking about.

 

[ravidubey]

No but I would trade Gallup, Wilson and Brown for that group. So which game are we talking about.

Question was would you take Brown, Watkins, and Andrews as your top three, not your bottom three, to develop a passer?

 

[T-RO]

Put it this way... would you make that trade-- Cooper, Lamb, and Schultz for Brown, Watkins, and Andrews-- even for a single season?

If Jackson doesn't have Dallas-caliber receivers then his playmakers suck? Seems a huge jump and a flawed argument.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Question was would you take Brown, Watkins, and Andrews as your top three, not your bottom three, to develop a passer?

That's not really the question you raised though with your original statement. You claimed Dak never would have seen a second contract with those WRs. Well Dak got a second contract but he played in the NFL for a long time before he got the luxury of Gallup, Cooper and Lamb. Shit he barely played with Lamb before he got his contract.

And this year he hasn't had Lamb, Cooper and Gallup all together hardly at all. So yeah, Dak with the trio of Gallup, Wilson and Brown is also part of his career.

 

[ravidubey]

Dak with the trio of Gallup, Wilson and Brown is also part of his career.

Good lord... "a part" == one game, lol. But that's not the point. Dak's already become a great passer now.

Spin it however you want, Dak was failing in 2018 after an equally horrible 2017 until Amari Cooper arrived.

Then it all changed. Dak won a playoff game and improved steadily from there. Cooper was the key acquisition that made it happen. Without that, who's to say Dallas doesn't draft another QB with their next #1 pick in 2020 (or 2019, since they would not have traded for Cooper in this scenario)?

Baltimore has failed to bring in a #1 WR for Jackson. Hollywood Brown has been a little above average. Their #1 pick (finally made in 2021) is on IR. Watkins is a journeyman.

Baltimore still makes it on their QB's freakish legs and a solid defense, but their window to refine Jackson's passing skills is closing.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Spin it however you want, Dak was failing in 2018 after an equally horrible 2017 until Amari Cooper arrived.

And outside of a rookie Gallup the rest of those WRs were out of the league shortly.

 

[ravidubey]

And outside of a rookie Gallup the rest of those WRs were out of the league shortly.

Exactly. QBs and WRs need each other to succeed. My point is Dallas recognized this and went and got Cooper to save the season before the trade deadline.

Brown and Watkins are #3 wideouts. Even still they are making Brown into something resembling a decent WR statistically, but he’s not winning many matchups.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Exactly. QBs and WRs need each other to succeed. My point is Dallas recognized this and went and got Cooper to save the season before the trade deadline.

Brown and Watkins are #3 wideouts. Even still they are making Brown into something resembling a decent WR statistically, but he’s not winning many matchups.

Eh I think you underate Brown. I think he would be an excellent 2. I'd love a guy like that in Dallas. Lamar just isn't a great passer. But Watkins is basically a 2/3. Bateman is basically the same thing. Solid 2 or three probably but they have no real #1. They have tried but yeah they didn't go out and trade a first for a guy like Cooper.

 

[ravidubey]

Eh I think you underate Brown. I think he would be an excellent 2. I'd love a guy like that in Dallas. Lamar just isn't a great passer. But Watkins is basically a 2/3. Bateman is basically the same thing. Solid 2 or three probably but they have no real #1. They have tried but yeah they didn't go out and trade a first for a guy like Cooper.

Brown tries, but he’s no better than a #2. He’s not better than our top three, and I’d take Cedrick Wilson straight up over Watkins 10 times out of 10.

Jackson is a scorer not a passer, and they need much better targets if he’s ever going to become one