Cowboys trade for Bills QB Matt Cassel

Carp said:

Comical that a 5th is too much to give up for a back up QB. Teams commit finances and draft resources all the time to address the back up QB spot. Every team hopes they never have to call on the back up.

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Name one team in the last 10 years that has spent a 5th round pick on a backup QB in a trade. Just one.

NoDak said:

No, you basically said it's a criticism of the starter. Which it isn't. Unless you want to tell me Gregory isn't as good as the better paid starter in front of him.

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I was quoting a post that was talking about what he was going to be paid. But, yeah, it is an indictment of what the team thinks about the "starter" when they are willing to part with a 5th and 2 mill (possibly 4.17 mill) against the cap to back him up.

For the most important position on the field. Oh, and also got a 7th back too.

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You mean to backup the most important position on the field. Don't tire me with this crap. If he is meant to start, fine. But, if he is meant to be insurance, it's too much.

Cowboysrock55 said:

And almost certainly won't be on the roster past this year either. Its a fifth round pick for a one year rental who you hope never sees the field.

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Correct. It's dumb, unless they think he can start, and in that case then maybe I can manage to accept the loss of the 5th. But, that's highly unlikely.

NoDak said:

I never once said draft picks didn't matter. Only that I can see spending a 5th on a position of importance. Especially if we're trying to salvage what a lot of people think is a championship caliber season.

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So if we end up 2-14, still good?

This was a stab in the dark based on optimism, not the future of the team.

Iamtdg said:

I was quoting a post that was talking about what he was going to be paid. But, yeah, it is an indictment of what the team thinks about the "starter" when they are willing to part with a 5th and 2 mill (possibly 4.17 mill) against the cap to back him up.



You mean to backup the most important position on the field. Don't tire me with this crap. If he is meant to start, fine. But, if he is meant to be insurance, it's too much.

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No, it's not an indictment on the starter. It only means the team was willing to spend on a guy they feel is a good fit for their system and is better than the other guys available.

And speaking of tiring crap... How important did you think Brandon Weeden's position was 2 weeks ago? I'd wager not very. But it suddenly got pretty damn important, didn't it? And a 5th round pick is not too much to pay when that player could be holding what was once a very promising season in his hands on any given play. If we didn't do anything and Weeden went down in a couple weeks, you'd be the first one in here crying about how the team didn't do anything to ensure there was a backup in place behind Weeden.

boozeman said:

So if we end up 2-14, still good?

This was a stab in the dark based on optimism, not the future of the team.

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I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

NoDak said:

No, it's not an indictment on the starter. It only means the team was willing to spend on a guy they feel is a good fit for their system and is better than the other guys available.

And speaking of tiring crap... How important did you think Brandon Weeden's position was 2 weeks ago? I'd wager not very. But it suddenly got pretty damn important, didn't it? And a 5th round pick is not too much to pay when that player could be holding what was once a very promising season in his hands on any given play. If we didn't do anything and Weeden went down in a couple weeks, you'd be the first one in here crying about how the team didn't do anything to ensure there was a backup in place behind Weeden.

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A 5th is not what you pay for extra extra insurance. Because if Weeden is your QB and you are just looking for a "just in case" there were free options out there.

This has the feeling of them looking for someone to take over for Weeden. Why else spend a 5th?

Sure smells like an indictment on your "starter".

Iamtdg said:

Correct. It's dumb, unless they think he can start, and in that case then maybe I can manage to accept the loss of the 5th. But, that's highly unlikely.

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I could understand a fifth for a backup QB who you want to be your long term backup QB. Obviously we think more highly of Weeden as our backup QB so what does that tell you about Cassel past this year?

To me this just screams of desparation that we needed an experienced QB as a safety blanket, no matter how bad they are.

Iamtdg said:

A 5th is not what you pay for extra extra insurance. Because if Weeden is your QB and you are just looking for a "just in case" there were free options out there.

This has the feeling of them looking for someone to take over for Weeden. Why else spend a 5th?

Sure smells like an indictment on your "starter".

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Wrong. Cassel has the most experience of what was out there, and also has experience playing in offenses similar to what we run. Meaning, he'll be up to speed faster than somebody like Ponder or Flynn would be. He has started a lot of games in this league. And we more than likely had to pay a little extra for what we wanted because teams know we're up against it with Romo being hurt.

I know you're smarter than this, so I don't know why you keep having me say it. If the team feels this is the year to make a run, a 5th is a small price to pay to try and keep a championship season afloat as long as possible. Weeden is your starter. And will remain so unless something bad happens. If something happens to him before Romo is ready to go, we're trying to have some sort of contingency plan in place.

So, no. It's not an indictment on the "starter". No matter how many times you stupidly say it.

Cowboysrock55 said:

I could understand a fifth for a backup QB who you want to be your long term backup QB. Obviously we think more highly of Weeden as our backup QB so what does that tell you about Cassel past this year?

To me this just screams of desparation that we needed an experienced QB as a safety blanket, no matter how bad they are.

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It's either indicative of a lack of confidence in your current starting QB or they think he can fill in long term. For the price paid the first scenario is dumb. For the second, I'm on the fence.

NoDak said:

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

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If we end up losing out, you still like it? You still are okay with giving up a 5th for what basically we all said was game over if Romo went down?

You said it yourself, this is still a team competing for a championship caliber season?

If so, you have a different impression of the 2015 Cowboys than I do.

Look, I get it..."all in". But this was not a smart bet. It was a side bet because you knew deep down you made a bad one to begin with.

NoDak said:

Wrong. Cassel has the most experience of what was out there, and also has experience playing in offenses similar to what we run. Meaning, he'll be up to speed faster than somebody like Ponder or Flynn would be. He has started a lot of games in this league. And we more than likely had to pay a little extra for what we wanted because teams know we're up against it with Romo being hurt.

I know you're smarter than this, so I don't know why you keep having me say it. If the team feels this is the year to make a run, a 5th is a small price to pay to try and keep a championship season afloat as long as possible. Weeden is your starter. And will remain so unless something bad happens. If something happens to him before Romo is ready to go, we're trying to have some sort of contingency plan in place.

So, no. It's not an indictment on the "starter". No matter how many times you stupidly say it.

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Wrong. (just wanted to throw that back at you)

The 5th means one of two things.

1) They are planning on him taking over for Weeden before Romo comes back (I could get behind that if they feel he is better than Weeden)

2) They want him to sit on the bench "just in case" (Which I feel is a stupid waste of resources)

You don't have to repeat yourself anymore. I get your argument. I just think it's dumb.

Rich.Gannon.

Iamtdg said:

Name one team in the last 10 years that has spent a 5th round pick on a backup QB in a trade. Just one.

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The Seahawks gave up a 3rd rounder for Charlie Whitehurst in 2010 (and also swapped their early 2nd rounder for the Chargers late 2nd rounder).

The Raiders traded a 5th rounder to Seattle in 2013 for Matt Flynn (and a conditional 2015 pick for which the condition wasn't met since Flynn was cut just a month into the 2013 season).

The price for Cassel really isn't much at all. Trading down from the 5th to the 7th isn't a big deal as by that point in the draft, player grades converge. Guys drafted in the 5th round don't have significantly better grades than those that go in the 7th, it's mostly a matter of scheme fit and each team's individual needs. If Cassel ends up starting some games for us this season or even coming in for relief in a couple games it will have been well worth it.

22cowboysfan22 said:

The Seahawks gave up a 3rd rounder for Charlie Whitehurst in 2010 (and also swapped their early 2nd rounder for the Chargers late 2nd rounder).

The Raiders traded a 5th rounder to Seattle in 2013 for Matt Flynn (and a conditional 2015 pick for which the condition wasn't met since Flynn was cut just a month into the 2013 season).

The price for Cassel really isn't much at all. Trading down from the 5th to the 7th isn't a big deal as by that point in the draft, player grades converge. Guys drafted in the 5th round don't have significantly better grades than those that go in the 7th, it's mostly a matter of scheme fit and each team's individual needs. If Cassel ends up starting some games for us this season or even coming in for relief in a couple games it will have been well worth it.

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Yep.

I'm actually pretty surprised at the consternation over this.

All these things are risk/reward. Here, the potential reward greatly outweighs the risk of trading down late in a draft two years from now.

Cowboysrock55 said:

The problem is I basically look at seventh round picks as throw away picks. Hell our team even treats them that way. The reason the fifth hurts is because we actually seems to draft well in the fifth. Russel, Scandrick, Randle (Laugh if you want but he is a starter and a fifth round pick), Street (Again starting right now).

To me you don't get up more then a seventh rounder on a guy who is basically a throw away player.

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You gotta give to get.

Iamtdg said:

Wrong. (just wanted to throw that back at you)

The 5th means one of two things.

1) They are planning on him taking over for Weeden before Romo comes back (I could get behind that if they feel he is better than Weeden)

2) They want him to sit on the bench "just in case" (Which I feel is a stupid waste of resources)

You don't have to repeat yourself anymore. I get your argument. I just think it's dumb.

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If they want him over Weeden he will be starting in a couple of weeks and that will answer that. If he doesn't then he is a stop gap move.

boozeman said:

If we end up losing out, you still like it? You still are okay with giving up a 5th for what basically we all said was game over if Romo went down?

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Do you honestly think there is even the remotest chance of us finishing 2-14? Hey, maybe Cassel will come in and we'll finish 16-0. Would it be worth it then? There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of either happening, so I don't see any point in playing the absurd hypotheticals game.

I feel like this team still has a good shot to make the playoffs if we can just win half our games with Romo out. We're not 0-2. We're 2-0 with 2 division wins in a weak division. If we can win 4 games with Romo out we will be 6-5 when he comes back with a pretty good shot of going 4-1 over our last 5 games - @GB & @Buf are the only ones that really scares me. With average QB play we should easily be able to beat Miami, Carolina, Tampa, and either NY or Philly without Romo. That puts us at 10-6 which could win the division this year. So if the team isn't comfortable with Weeden playing .500 ball or wants to avoid the situation where Weeden goes down and we are truly desperate and forced to overspend to bring in a guy with no time to learn the playbook, I think a swap of late round 2017 picks is a reasonable trade to prevent that. Yes, the team should have addressed backup QB a long time ago, but at this time this is a smart move

I don't like trading a 5th for a backup QB, but Dallas basically got caught with their pants down.

Not developing young QBs and ignoring the position in the draft has led to this desperation.

Looks like we called 1-800-BACKUPQB.

I just hope we're not this desperate when finding Romo's eventual replacement.