2016 POTUS Election Thread

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L.T. Fan

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Did you also miss where he said Mexicans are rapists?
Some of them have been but did he say all of them? But this isn't on point with the original allegation that republicans and conservatives are racist.
 

Clay_Allison

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Some of them have been but did he say all of them? But this isn't on point with the original allegation that republicans and conservatives are racist.
He didn't say some. He said "They're rapists" and no one mentioned conservatives, but if you vote for a racist I'd say you are one or near enough to one as makes no difference. Not all republicans are supporting this asshole, but a lot of them are.
 

townsend

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Republicans aren't conservative, period. One is not the other, overall the republican platform is anti conservative and those who vote Republican are still voting against small government. (That isn't to say democrats are conservative, they absolutely aren't, but they advertise themselves as non-conservatives)
 

Cotton

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Understand that I don't think all republicans are racists (they kind of are, since all people ever are at least somewhat racist) but I don't think all republicans are exceptionally racist, but the fact that people like Trump haven't been laughed out of the primary is a horrific indictment of the entire party. That at the very least racists are very well represented among the right wing.
What's funny and what negates a lot of what you're saying is the liberals bring up race twice as much as conservatives do. It's like they have to keep it in the conversation to get elected or something.
 

Cotton

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Republicans aren't conservative, period. One is not the other, overall the republican platform is anti conservative and those who vote Republican are still voting against small government. (That isn't to say democrats are conservative, they absolutely aren't, but they advertise themselves as non-conservatives)
I would agree with this. But, I would take a Republican like Carson 10 times out of 10 over the shit we have in the White House right now.
 

townsend

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What's funny and what negates a lot of what you're saying is the liberals bring up race twice as much as conservatives do. It's like they have to keep it in the conversation to get elected or something.
Bringing up race isn't what makes people racist. This is a holdover from the old denial stages of race relations which somehow thought colorblindness was achievable, when it absolutely isn't.

Obviously there's plenty of pandering from the left but it's not the same as the right which has recently taken on shades of the European right wing with severe stances on religious freedom, and immigration that go way beyond conservative principles.
 

L.T. Fan

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Bringing up race isn't what makes people racist. This is a holdover from the old denial stages of race relations which somehow thought colorblindness was achievable, when it absolutely isn't.

Obviously there's plenty of pandering from the left but it's not the same as the right which has recently taken on shades of the European right wing with severe stances on religious freedom, and immigration that go way beyond conservative principles.
The truth of the matter is you are generalizing about a lot of people based on your perception of a few. That is as far as I care to discuss this topic.
 

Cotton

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Bringing up race isn't what makes people racist. This is a holdover from the old denial stages of race relations which somehow thought colorblindness was achievable, when it absolutely isn't.
Race-baiting is just as bad in my eyes.

Obviously there's plenty of pandering from the left but it's not the same as the right which has recently taken on shades of the European right wing with severe stances on religious freedom, and immigration that go way beyond conservative principles.
Don't paint with such a broad brush.
 

townsend

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The truth of the matter is you are generalizing about a lot of people based on your perception of a few. That is as far as I care to discuss this topic.
Don't paint with such a broad brush.
Here's where I think the disconnect is. I'm not saying people who vote for the party are necessarily this way. (Although I imagine there are going to be far fewer people voting for republicans in the coming years if this trend continues, this is my first election where I've even contemplated voting democrat.) I'm saying the Republican brand itself has been tainted, and Republican politicians have to pander to the irrational side of their party that used to be silent.

Even 4 years ago Trump's rhetoric would have killed his traction. But he's been the front runner for the better part of the last six months. That speaks to a hijacked party that doesn't represent a conservative base.
 

Cotton

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Here's where I think the disconnect is. I'm not saying people who vote for the party are necessarily this way. (Although I imagine there are going to be far fewer people voting for republicans in the coming years if this trend continues, this is my first election where I've even contemplated voting democrat.) I'm saying the Republican brand itself has been tainted, and Republican politicians have to pander to the irrational side of their party that used to be silent.

Even 4 years ago Trump's rhetoric would have killed his traction. But he's been the front runner for the better part of the last six months. That speaks to a hijacked party that doesn't represent a conservative base.
I think the disconnect is you're saying Republicans are racist, and I'm saying conservatives as whole are not. We have established that the Republican party is not as conservative as it once was. So, don't lump all conservatives under the label Republican. It's not a fair nor honest label.
 

townsend

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I think the disconnect is you're saying Republicans are racist, and I'm saying conservatives as whole are not. We have established that the Republican party is not as conservative as it once was. So, don't lump all conservatives under the label Republican. It's not a fair nor honest label.
I don't get how people get "conservative" when I say Republican. I consider myself a conservative. Conservatives haven't had representation in 20 years. They've just been giving Republicans their vote out of habit.
 

Cotton

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I don't get how people get "conservative" when I say Republican. I consider myself a conservative. Conservatives haven't had representation in 20 years. They've just been giving Republicans their vote out of habit.
You said the right in a previous post. That's conservatives.
 

townsend

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I would agree with this. But, I would take a Republican like Carson 10 times out of 10 over the shit we have in the White House right now.
Carson sounds like he can't find the Middle East on a map. Obama just minted two separate international trade agreements (admittedly I'm not wild about TPP).This is not a gig for outsiders I'd support Rubio over Carson. He may be a tool wad hawk, but at least he knows his shit when it comes to foreign policy.

Rand and Cruz seem to have decent grasps on all that stuff too. That's why I'm over "outsiders" they're just unqualified to deal with national politics.
 

townsend

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You said the right in a previous post. That's conservatives.
in mind the right wing represents more extreme (nationalist, nativist, Christian family values) interests than true conservatives; thinking of Goldwater as the prototypical conservative, I believe that conservatism falls just left of the right wing.
 

Cotton

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Carson sounds like he can't find the Middle East on a map. Obama just minted two separate international trade agreements (admittedly I'm not wild about TPP).This is not a gig for outsiders I'd support Rubio over Carson. He may be a tool wad hawk, but at least he knows his shit when it comes to foreign policy.

Rand and Cruz seem to have decent grasps on all that stuff too. That's why I'm over "outsiders" they're just unqualified to deal with national politics.
Do not even try to say Obama's foreign policy is anything but a dumpster fire. You're smarter than that.
 

townsend

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Do not even try to say Obama's foreign policy is anything but a dumpster fire. You're smarter than that.
I'm not huge on it. But no one's going to come out of being handed two leftover wars from the last administration smelling like a rose. There is nothing the U.S. Could have done that wouldn't had shitty consequences. That's what getting caught in quagmires do.

Even if you had the power to go back and change any of the US's decisions what would you have done differently? Stay in Iraq and throw an extra trillion dollars away? Not negotiate with Iran so they can develop nuclear weapons in economic isolation and become the next North Korea? Invade Syria or leave Libya alone and let them have each other's problems. There's no winning in the Middle East, but one thing that Bush's administration proved was putting complete boobs in charge can still make things infinitely worse.
 

Cotton

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I'm not huge on it. But no one's going to come out of being handed two leftover wars from the last administration smelling like a rose. There is nothing the U.S. Could have done that wouldn't had shitty consequences. That's what getting caught in quagmires do.

Even if you had the power to go back and change any of the US's decisions what would you have done differently? Stay in Iraq and throw an extra trillion dollars away? Not negotiate with Iran so they can develop nuclear weapons in economic isolation and become the next North Korea? Invade Syria or leave Libya alone and let them have each other's problems. There's no winning in the Middle East, but one thing that Bush's administration proved was putting complete boobs in charge can still make things infinitely worse.
Things are worse since Obama took over. Much much worse. I'm not absolving Bush, but it is definitively worse now. The Iran thing being the worst of it, obviously.
 
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