2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Clay_Allison

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Yeah I don't pretend to have the answer. But I think throwing our hands up and saying, well there is 2000 miles we just can't do anything, is sort of pathetic as well. And if that is the answer, well then don't waste any money protecting the border at all because you're not stopping anyone. I know where I live ICE doesn't do anything with illegals. It's kind of a joke really.
Drones, cameras, satellite imaging, National guard stations and patrols to respond to that information and stop incursions: that's what I'm suggesting, the way a real military enforces a real border. I'm not against border security at all, I'm against spending money on shit that won't catch anyone doing anything.
 

L.T. Fan

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I think there's a failure to appreciate the shear scale of the border. We don't have a fence across the whole the, and the fence we've laid over a fraction of it has cost us nearly 3 Billion dollars. The US Mexican border is nearly 2000 miles long, with large, remote portions with no clear path for vehicles over large portions. You might as well be chasing down every ant hill on a ranch than find every tunnel across the border.
Maybe you fail to recognize available technology. Tunnels and movements can be detected. Once detected they can be blocked or obliterated. This approach hasn't been done because the dept. of Immigration doesn't have the technology or manpower to accomplish this but the military does. The missing ingredient in the past has been the absence of a mandate from the top.
 

L.T. Fan

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Drones, cameras, satellite imaging, National guard stations and patrols to respond to that information and stop incursions: that's what I'm suggesting, the way a real military enforces a real border. I'm not against border security at all, I'm against spending money on shit that won't catch anyone doing anything.
We are on the same page. It like treating termites. You shut them down then continue maintainence for new activity. The tunnels are the easy part.
 

Jiggyfly

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Maybe you fail to recognize available technology. Tunnels and movements can be detected. Once detected they can be blocked or obliterated. This approach hasn't been done because the dept. of Immigration doesn't have the technology or manpower to accomplish this but the military does. The missing ingredient in the past has been the absence of a mandate from the top.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20150501-htmlstory.html

Q&A The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels

By Joseph SernaContact Reporter Mexico Drug Trafficking U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Border Patrol agents discovered a drug-trafficking tunnel west of the San Ysidro border crossing this week after a sinkhole gave away its location.

The tunnel had yet to be completed but was already showing the tell-tale signs of a sturdy trafficking passage, including a rail and air ventilation system.

In an interview with The Times, Joseph DiMeglio, 41, a 13-year veteran with the Department of Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement and supervisory special agent for the San Diego tunnel task force for the last two years, described what authorities have encountered in years past.


How far do these tunnels go into the U.S. and where are they found?
As far as a third of a mile in some cases. The tunnel ends are hidden under the floors of buildings like homes or warehouses where it wouldn’t seem out of the ordinary to see some people going in and out.

The tunnel location depends on the soil and what’s around the area. Tunnels in Arizona are dug in sandy soil that requires more support than those a few miles east of Otay Mesa, which is a soil called Caliche that holds its form better.

Wherever they’re dug, the tunnel ends are usually found in areas that are not heavily populated, particularly at night, like an industrial complex.

In the Southwest, most tunnels are found in Arizona, said Lauren Mack, an ICE spokeswoman. Since 2006, authorities have found more than 80 sophisticated tunnels – about 25 of them were around San Diego.


View of a tunnel found by soldiers of the Mexican army in the border city of Tijuana and apparently used to smuggle drugs into the United States on April 7. (Said Betanzos / AFP/Getty Images)

How big are the tunnels and who builds them?

They can stretch as far as 1,800 feet long but are narrow, DiMeglio said. They’re usually about 60 feet below ground and are generally in the 3-foot-by-4-foot range. DiMeglio once found a tunnel that was only 22 inches wide.

The tunnels are dug by people hired by drug cartels, he said. Some are paid very little to do the work and are sometimes forced to stay inside the tunnels until they’re finished so they don’t reveal its location.

The diggers use the same tools that have been used for hundreds of years – pickaxes and shovels, DiMeglio said.

How long do they take to build and how much do they cost?

Some can be built in as little as six months but others can take up to a year. The cost could range from $800,000 to $1 million.

“To you and I that’s a lot of money. To a cartel, that’s pocket change,” DiMeglio said. “These tunnels, if they’re successful, they get their merchandise through for one day – that’s paid for the tunnel and then some.”

The tunnels burrowed under the San Diego area are controlled by the powerful Sinaloa cartel.


Have traffickers changed how they hide them?


Yes, they have over the last few years, DiMeglio says. As recently as three years ago traffickers would be seen not-so-subtly driving big rigs to tunnel exits and loading tons of drugs for shipment. But as law enforcement has homed in, traffickers rely on more discreet vehicles like box vans or sedans.

Even finding a drug tunnel exit or entrance is more difficult, DiMeglio said. Traffickers have been known to build entire false floors that lift with hydraulics to reveal an opening or seal off an exit with fresh concrete and paint after every use.

What kinds of tunnels are there and what are they for?


Tunnels are placed in three categories: rudimentary, interconnecting and sophisticated.

Rudimentary tunnels are “gopher”-like tunnels that are short, shallow and simple and might be found under a border fence. They’re used for smuggling people and drugs.

Interconnecting tunnels are more complex than rudimentary ones but less than the sophisticated category. They’re tunnels that ultimately connect to underground water or sewer systems and are also used to smuggle people and drugs.

Sophisticated tunnels are longer, deeper underground and require far more work. Agents consider a tunnel “sophisticated” if it's outfitted with rails and carts, lights and a ventilation system.
These tunnels aren’t used to smuggle any people except high-ranking cartel members because the more people use them, the more likely someone will notice them. The tunnels are used to smuggle the cartel’s bulkiest cargo, like tons of marijuana and cocaine.


This image provided by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency shows an agent examining one of two tunnels discovered April 1, 2014, in San Diego's Otay Mesa industrial park.


How are these tunnels found, and where?


By good police work, human intelligence, and “a lot of luck goes into it as well,” DiMeglio said. The one discovered this week, for instance, was found only because agents spotted a random sinkhole. Agents don’t have technology that detects tunnels underground, he said.

What happens when the tunnels are found?


Authorities carefully move in to shut them down and don’t chase workers if they run back to the Mexican side – there’s no telling what’s waiting on the other end, DiMeglio said.

After they’re emptied, authorities fill the tunnels up with wet cement up to the border.
 

L.T. Fan

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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20150501-htmlstory.html

Q&A The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels

By Joseph SernaContact Reporter Mexico Drug Trafficking U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Border Patrol agents discovered a drug-trafficking tunnel west of the San Ysidro border crossing this week after a sinkhole gave away its location.

The tunnel had yet to be completed but was already showing the tell-tale signs of a sturdy trafficking passage, including a rail and air ventilation system.

In an interview with The Times, Joseph DiMeglio, 41, a 13-year veteran with the Department of Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement and supervisory special agent for the San Diego tunnel task force for the last two years, described what authorities have encountered in years past.


How far do these tunnels go into the U.S. and where are they found?
As far as a third of a mile in some cases. The tunnel ends are hidden under the floors of buildings like homes or warehouses where it wouldn’t seem out of the ordinary to see some people going in and out.

The tunnel location depends on the soil and what’s around the area. Tunnels in Arizona are dug in sandy soil that requires more support than those a few miles east of Otay Mesa, which is a soil called Caliche that holds its form better.

Wherever they’re dug, the tunnel ends are usually found in areas that are not heavily populated, particularly at night, like an industrial complex.

In the Southwest, most tunnels are found in Arizona, said Lauren Mack, an ICE spokeswoman. Since 2006, authorities have found more than 80 sophisticated tunnels – about 25 of them were around San Diego.


View of a tunnel found by soldiers of the Mexican army in the border city of Tijuana and apparently used to smuggle drugs into the United States on April 7. (Said Betanzos / AFP/Getty Images)

How big are the tunnels and who builds them?

They can stretch as far as 1,800 feet long but are narrow, DiMeglio said. They’re usually about 60 feet below ground and are generally in the 3-foot-by-4-foot range. DiMeglio once found a tunnel that was only 22 inches wide.

The tunnels are dug by people hired by drug cartels, he said. Some are paid very little to do the work and are sometimes forced to stay inside the tunnels until they’re finished so they don’t reveal its location.

The diggers use the same tools that have been used for hundreds of years – pickaxes and shovels, DiMeglio said.

How long do they take to build and how much do they cost?

Some can be built in as little as six months but others can take up to a year. The cost could range from $800,000 to $1 million.

“To you and I that’s a lot of money. To a cartel, that’s pocket change,” DiMeglio said. “These tunnels, if they’re successful, they get their merchandise through for one day – that’s paid for the tunnel and then some.”

The tunnels burrowed under the San Diego area are controlled by the powerful Sinaloa cartel.


Have traffickers changed how they hide them?


Yes, they have over the last few years, DiMeglio says. As recently as three years ago traffickers would be seen not-so-subtly driving big rigs to tunnel exits and loading tons of drugs for shipment. But as law enforcement has homed in, traffickers rely on more discreet vehicles like box vans or sedans.

Even finding a drug tunnel exit or entrance is more difficult, DiMeglio said. Traffickers have been known to build entire false floors that lift with hydraulics to reveal an opening or seal off an exit with fresh concrete and paint after every use.

What kinds of tunnels are there and what are they for?


Tunnels are placed in three categories: rudimentary, interconnecting and sophisticated.

Rudimentary tunnels are “gopher”-like tunnels that are short, shallow and simple and might be found under a border fence. They’re used for smuggling people and drugs.

Interconnecting tunnels are more complex than rudimentary ones but less than the sophisticated category. They’re tunnels that ultimately connect to underground water or sewer systems and are also used to smuggle people and drugs.

Sophisticated tunnels are longer, deeper underground and require far more work. Agents consider a tunnel “sophisticated” if it's outfitted with rails and carts, lights and a ventilation system.
These tunnels aren’t used to smuggle any people except high-ranking cartel members because the more people use them, the more likely someone will notice them. The tunnels are used to smuggle the cartel’s bulkiest cargo, like tons of marijuana and cocaine.


This image provided by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency shows an agent examining one of two tunnels discovered April 1, 2014, in San Diego's Otay Mesa industrial park.


How are these tunnels found, and where?


By good police work, human intelligence, and “a lot of luck goes into it as well,” DiMeglio said. The one discovered this week, for instance, was found only because agents spotted a random sinkhole. Agents don’t have technology that detects tunnels underground, he said.

What happens when the tunnels are found?


Authorities carefully move in to shut them down and don’t chase workers if they run back to the Mexican side – there’s no telling what’s waiting on the other end, DiMeglio said.

After they’re emptied, authorities fill the tunnels up with wet cement up to the border.
According to the article there are a lot of existing tunnels with various engineering. It also indicates the Agents aren't equipped with equipment to find them. The tunnels are usually found by clever police footwork. To bad the Agency cannot get equipped enough to utilize technology to find and destroy them. Apparently a lot of them are far enough along to be equipped with rails and ventilation systems. Maybe the next regimes will get serious about border security.
 

Clay_Allison

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According to the article there are a lot of existing tunnels with various engineering. It also indicates the Agents aren't equipped with equipment to find them. The tunnels are usually found by clever police footwork. To bad the Agency cannot get equipped enough to utilize technology to find and destroy them. Apparently a lot of them are far enough along to be equipped with rails and ventilation systems. Maybe the next regimes will get serious about border security.
Or maybe they'll want to build a big stupid wall and do nothing to secure the border at all.
 

L.T. Fan

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Or maybe they'll want to build a big stupid wall and do nothing to secure the border at all.
Oh I think the technology is being withheld intentionally because the agenda currently is to keep the borders open. That's why I said there is no mandate from the top to engage this approach. A lot can be done by turning the people loose within the Agency and equipping them.properly.
 

skidadl

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Oh I think the technology is being withheld intentionally because the agenda currently is to keep the borders open. That's why I said there is no mandate from the top to engage this approach. A lot can be done by turning the people loose within the Agency and equipping them.properly.
The open border greatly benefits the left AND the right.
 

L.T. Fan

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The open border greatly benefits the left AND the right.
I am sure it does but things like tunnels also gives an easy venue for drug cartels and potential terrorist entry. There has to be a intervention at some point or these agendas will eventually do serious harm to the nation.
 

Jiggyfly

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Oh I think the technology is being withheld intentionally because the agenda currently is to keep the borders open. That's why I said there is no mandate from the top to engage this approach. A lot can be done by turning the people loose within the Agency and equipping them.properly.
There does not need to be a mandate from the top both houses of congress are held by the same party they could pass legislation tomorrow and lay this at the feet of Obama and the democrats.

But guess what?

All you hear about is a freakin wall.
 

L.T. Fan

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There does not need to be a mandate from the top both houses of congress are held by the same party they could pass legislation tomorrow and lay this at the feet of Obama and the democrats.

But guess what?

All you hear about is a freakin wall.
I'm referencing past policy of hands off the border by the states and non deportation which is mandated at the office of the President. That past policy is what has brought the build the wall rhetoric.
 

townsend

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Donald Trump is now accepting the kind of big-money donations he thinks corrupts politicians
Updated by Jeff Stein on May 9, 2016, 3:59 p.m. ET


Donald Trump, who has spent months decrying politicians who take big money for their campaigns, now says he will accept money from big-dollar donors for the general election.

Trump's team announced last week that he will create a fundraising apparatus that will take big checks from the wealthiest donors to fund a campaign that could cost upward of $1 billion, according to Bloomberg.


"He's done a complete 180," says Josh Stewart, a spokesperson for the Sunlight Foundation, which tracks money in politics. "A central part of Trump's campaign for the nomination was that he was not bought and paid for and would self-fund his campaign. Now, he's going back on that."

In other words, Trump has now become the very kind of candidate he's said he spent decades buying off.

Donald Trump wasn't completely self-funding his campaign, but it was pretty close
Trump's theory of money in politics has always been clear: Wealthy donors pour cash into campaigns, and politicians cut them special deals in exchange once elected.

Since declaring his candidacy, Trump has attacked politicians accepting campaign donations as being bought off by special interests. This message has clearly resonated with primary voters, who have repeatedly listed Trump's financial independence as central to his campaign.
"Their lobbyists, their special interests and their donors will start calling President Bush, President Clinton," Trump has said. "And they’ll say: ‘You have to do it. They gave you a million dollars to your campaign.'"

For the most part, Trump could claim to be an antidote to that.

Trump was certainly exaggerating claims that his campaign was independently financed — Trump has ponied up $36 million of the $48 million raised for his campaign, with the rest from small donor gifts, according to the Committee for Responsive Politics. And then there's the issue that Trump has loaned rather than given his campaign the money, opening the door for Trump to pay himself back at a later date with outside donations.

But these are mostly nitpicks that can obscure the bigger picture. Like Bernie Sanders, Trump has refused to raise money from wealthy donors in a way that really did meaningfully separate him from the rest of the Republican field (and Hillary Clinton).

"Throughout the primary, it seemed to bear out that he was mostly accurate that he was self-financing his campaign," Stewart says. "Now, there were a bunch of caveats — and you can get into the weeds of it — but I think he's now looking at the reality of the general election and going back on a significant promise."

What Trump's decision says about the general election
Throughout the primary, Trump said he donated to both Republican and Democratic politicians because doing so gave him pull over elected officials in both parties.

This was part of a broader pitch that informed Trump's campaign: Yes, Trump was once a businessman who played a corrupt system, but because he was an insider he knows how to expose that system from within.

"When [politicians] call, I give. And you know what, when I need something from them two years later, three years later, I call them," Trump said. "They are there for me. That's a broken system."

Trump protester rally
Jabin Botsford/Washington Post via Getty
Trump's new fundraising operation puts him directly in the role of the politician he said he was once trying to buy. Asked about the conflicting messages, Trump ally Roger Stone argued that the donations wouldn't compromise Trump because Trump himself can't be compromised.

"Donald Trump knows Wall Street will pay both sides," Stone told the New York Times. "Why shouldn’t he take their money to beat Hillary? They are going to find out you can’t co-opt Donald Trump. He’s his own man with his own nationalist views. He can’t be bought. Sure, he’ll take their money, but he won’t change his views."

This seems like a much less compelling theory of Trump's candidacy than the one he advanced in a primary. It relies much more heavily on the idea that Trump himself amounts to a uniquely pure generational candidate, rather than relying on facts that supported his earlier rhetoric — and, for some voters, rang true.

Of course, that doesn't mean Trump won't try to have it both ways. Trump could move to accept big donor checks while continuing to hammer Clinton for being bought off by special interests — even if there's no longer a substantive difference in their campaign finance operations.

"It'll be interesting to see if Trump abandons his rhetoric on attacking other candidates around this issue," Stewart says. "I don't think he will."

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11640038/donald-trump-donations-big-money
 

skidadl

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Of course he is. If he somehow makes it things won't be different at all.
 

L.T. Fan

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Of course he is. If he somehow makes it things won't be different at all.
Yep. No need to hold him to a higher standard. He is doing what hundreds have done before him. The only difference is he held off until he got things lined up.
 

2233boys

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Yep. No need to hold him to a higher standard. He is doing what hundreds have done before him. The only difference is he held off until he got things lined up.
:wtf

Yeah no need to hold him to his word or what got him the nomination.

He is quite literally the worst candidate for president in the history of the country.
 

townsend

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:wtf

Yeah no need to hold him to his word or what got him the nomination.

He is quite literally the worst candidate for president in the history of the country.
Well that's relative. Since our nation has committed genocide multiple times in its history, there's been a lot of worst presidents, who were worst presidential candidates. I'd say it's safe to say he's the worst major party nominee of the modern era.
 

2233boys

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Well that's relative. Since our nation has committed genocide multiple times in its history, there's been a lot of worst presidents, who were worst presidential candidates. I'd say it's safe to say he's the worst major party nominee of the modern era.
Fair enough.
 

Kbrown

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He was not a serious candidate and was all bluster back on page 21.
 
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