Machota - Jerry Jones: Too early to talk about positives of a potential top-5 pick

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
They both scare me as top 10 picks.

It sucks that we will have such a high pick in a draft that is so weak in top end talent.
That's why I don't care about tanking. First we obviously can lose anyways but since there aren't many top notch prospects in the top 5 it kind of sucks to be there when there's no can't miss QB's, one top OT when it's probably our lowest need and a couple of LB's and CB's.

It may help us in some other rounds but right now I'd be just as comfortable being in in the 8-12 range and landing a WR or RB like Treadway or Elliot or a front 7 defender than taking one of the QB's, LB's or CB's in the top 5.

And with the QB's it's been like that most of the last 10 years with the exception of Luck. And even then you had to be at #1 to land him. Eli, Roethlisberger and Rivers was the last time there were more than one legit QB high in the draft. But usually you at least have a few high end pass rushers and this year it's just Bosa and even at 4-12 I think we miss out on him since he'll likely go top 3.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
Serious question, he's already getting late 1st round pub, if this guy blows up the Senior Bowl like Rivers 10 years ago, do you give him serious consideration at 5 or 7 or where ever we end up picking?
He'd have to blow up a lot to bolt into the top 10. I think he'll move into the first round and probably end up going to a playoff team where he can develop for a year. If he goes higher it'll be someone reaching for need. I still prefer to get the most value out of the pick. If we seriously consider him I'd hope we'd trade down because I doubt he'll be a top 10 valued player.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,416
He'd have to blow up a lot to bolt into the top 10. I think he'll move into the first round and probably end up going to a playoff team where he can develop for a year. If he goes higher it'll be someone reaching for need. I still prefer to get the most value out of the pick. If we seriously consider him I'd hope we'd trade down because I doubt he'll be a top 10 valued player.
It wouldn't surprise me, I think he has at least as big an arm as Lynch or Goff and looks like a better runner with more athleticism. The level of play is an obvious concern, as is the injury, but he comes out of a pro style offense and if he shows out against the talent at the Senior Bowl, I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot up to the top 15.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,416
They both scare me as top 10 picks.

It sucks that we will have such a high pick in a draft that is so weak in top end talent.
Yea it definitely sucks although in an odd way it just emboldens my desire to draft a QB.

If there were elite, basically can't miss position prospects like Julio Jones, Khalil Mack, Marcell Dareus or Patrick Peterson available I wouldn't advocate taking a chance on a QB, but while I like guys like Jaylon Smith, Myles Jack and such, they aren't can't miss guys by any means and the relative value of a non-pass rushing LB is obviously not as high as most positions unless you find a generational talent like Kuechly. Then you have a guy like Jalen Ramsey who I'm sure will burn a 4.32 at the combine but he has poor ball skills. We all know the situation with our OL when considering drafting a OT with a top 10 pick.

It sucks but this is a weak draft at the top, seemingly the entire first is weak really. It's not as bad as 2013 but it's not far off, we all know we need to invest in a future QB real soon, so we might as well take a chance now when the opportunity cost isn't that high.
 

NoDak

Hotlinking' sonofabitch
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
22,931
Wentz might have the biggest arm in the draft and is probably one of the best runners as well, just below true running QBs who can't pass like Dak and Cardale. He also has pretty good pocket presence, a relatively quick release and movement ability in the pocket, my main concern is that he seems to stare down WRs and believes his arm can fit it in anywhere, aside from the lower level of play thing.

He's also a model citizen and student supposedly, winning some big time Academic All-American award.

Serious question, he's already getting late 1st round pub, if this guy blows up the Senior Bowl like Rivers 10 years ago, do you give him serious consideration at 5 or 7 or where ever we end up picking?
You watched NDSU games? He hasn't played much this year, since he broke his wrist early.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,465
That's why I don't care about tanking. First we obviously can lose anyways but since there aren't many top notch prospects in the top 5 it kind of sucks to be there when there's no can't miss QB's, one top OT when it's probably our lowest need and a couple of LB's and CB's.

It may help us in some other rounds but right now I'd be just as comfortable being in in the 8-12 range and landing a WR or RB like Treadway or Elliot or a front 7 defender than taking one of the QB's, LB's or CB's in the top 5.
.
Better to have the higher pick with the ability to trade down to that 8-12 range if you want to. That's why I care about tanking. I'd much rather that then to have a pick in the 8-12 range and miss out on a player I really want.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
Better to have the higher pick with the ability to trade down to that 8-12 range if you want to. That's why I care about tanking. I'd much rather that then to have a pick in the 8-12 range and miss out on a player I really want.
It's fine being up there if we use it to trade down. But with the prospects or the lack of at the top I'm not sure there will be much desire from other teams to want to move up. Only a team desperate for a QB who falls in love with one of them will likely bring a trade. But in that case we should probably take the QB ourselves. Right now the QB's are iffy. Lynch and Goff are basically projected in the top 10 due to teams desperate for a QB, not so much because they are legit top 10 talents.

I'd definitely take one of the QB's over a CB like Hargreaves or Ramsey. But I'd like to see at least one of the DL like A'Shawn Robinson, DeForest Buckner or Ogbah move up to be solid top 5-10 prospects. It's a tough choice between a possible starting QB who is raw with bigger bust risk or a not flashy but safer pick like a DL or LB. The last thing we can afford is a bust in the first round, especially in the top 10.
 

p1_

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
26,459
No need to worry about tanking. Buffalo and Washington will take care of business. 4-12, here we come.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,416
You watched NDSU games? He hasn't played much this year, since he broke his wrist early.
I've watched like 4 of his games on the Draft Breakdown site which is basically a directory of YouTube videos of spliced together plays from different games. So no, I haven't watched full NDSU games, although I've been hoping he would come back for one of these playoff games, but I've seen probably somewhere around 120 or so of his throws.

I just watched the Northern Iowa game actually and he was making NFL throws all over the place. Ironically it was the only game where he threw an interception but he made some absolutely amazing throws in a comeback win. Several throws from one hash to the opposite sideline, a couple perfectly thrown deep balls and a few throws in the middle of the field where he hit a WR with nearly perfect accuracy between several defenders.

The injury is definitely a shame, if he had played all year there would obviously be more snaps to watch and he'd probably have stats somewhere in the range of 35 or so TD's and 10 or so INT's, but it is what it is.

I just think it's funny when I read people (not here but draft articles about him) where they say that he would be a great fit for a team at the end of the 1st who has the luxury of being able to groom him without the pressure of having to play him right away, and that he would be ideal for a team like that because of the low level of competition, the injury and so forth. Are we not in the exact same position in terms of being able to groom him behind a veteran on a team that is generally in win now mode?

Is a good but not great prospect at LB or CB really that critical to pass up someone who could be a franchise QB with 2 years of seasoning?

I still have plenty of questions about the guy but if he torches the Senior Bowl, all bets are off for me.
 
Last edited:

NoDak

Hotlinking' sonofabitch
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
22,931
Hmm. I didn't know about that site. I'll have to check it out.
 

Rev

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
19,335
You watched NDSU games? He hasn't played much this year, since he broke his wrist early.
:lol

Come on. Everybody watches every game or game film here.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,730
Hmm. I didn't know about that site. I'll have to check it out.
It's very cool. Definitely easy to spend hours on it.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,416
:lol

Come on. Everybody watches every game or game film here.
I actually have watched several games worth of his snaps/throws. Obviously it's not actual coaching film but I'm not sitting here talking out of my ass about him, you can tell a whole lot from just the TV broadcast if you watch enough of a sample size.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
I saw a mock by CBS Sports that has Wentz going to the Jets in the first.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,416
I saw a mock by CBS Sports that has Wentz going to the Jets in the first.
Yea, I saw that mock, I think it had him in the early 20's. The guy is already getting 1st round pub, to me he has a better arm than Goff and Lynch and he is a better runner/more athletic than either. I think his movement/foot work in the pocket needs to improve but he can definitely move around reasonably well and he throws on the run at least as well as Lynch and better than Goff. He also played in a more pro style offense than either of them, although there were certainly elements of the read option in their offense.

At any rate, if the guy blows up at the Senior Bowl (which would be extremely impressive considering he hasn't played in months and is coming off a broken wrist), taking him in the top 15 might not seem ridiculous at all.
 

Joe Fan

Brand New Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
1,647
Goff or Lynch, sure. But I am starting to really really like Wentz a lot the more I watch of him and I think he fits what we do better and he fits the profile of a kid who can sit and learn for a year or two.

I am not advocating trading down, but I sure as shit would trade back into the first to get him as that is where I am guessing he will go right now.
I'm a Goff fan myself. Then again I get quite a bit of exposure to him being here on the west coast and think he'd be a good fit here.

The thing that I'd hate to see happen is that he ends up landing with the 49ers which is highly likely at this point.

I know absolutely nothing about this Wentz guy that you're talking about. Who would you compare him to league wise?

I'm all in favor of bringing in someone that could sit for a year or two and learn from Romo, if he can actually stay healthy. In fact, I think given the success that Rodgers has had in GB I'd prefer it. And no, I'm not comparing any of these players to a Rodgers type of player but rather referring to the situation where he was able to sit and learn before being thrown in.
 

p1_

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
26,459
I have a hard time seeing Romo last a full season at this stage. I just see him getting hurt again, and missing time.
With that in mind, we need a backup who is credible (i.e. experienced) and can step in immediately, and we also need to draft
the future starter. Banking on Romo's continued health is no longer a viable strategy.
 
Top Bottom