The Great Police Work Thread

Clay_Allison

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Well, watch it and get back to me. .0039% of encounters with the cops result in valid abuse cases.
That's a false statistic. Cops are usually cleared of wrongdoing no matter what they do. I'm sure in Mexico no interactions with police result in "valid" abuse cases.
 

Cotton

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That's a false statistic. Cops are usually cleared of wrongdoing no matter what they do. I'm sure in Mexico no interactions with police result in "valid" abuse cases.
You don't know it's false. The statistics they based it on are from the FBI, but I suppose they could be making that up.
 

Clay_Allison

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You don't know it's false. The statistics they based it on are from the FBI, but I suppose they could be making that up.
If the definition the FBI is using for "valid" is cases where cops are actually fired or charged with a crime it's going to be artificially low. Plenty of cops have long abusive histories before anything ever comes down on them.
 

Cotton

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If the definition the FBI is using for "valid" is cases where cops are actually fired or charged with a crime it's going to be artificially low. Plenty of cops have long abusive histories before anything ever comes down on them.
Watch the video and decide for yourself.
 

Clay_Allison

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Watch the video and decide for yourself.
I watched the video and discovered that they didn't say who determined whether a case was "sustained" or not, which is what I expected. Also, I would hope that a low % of police 'contacts' would result in abuse. Was anyone here suggesting that everyone gets a free beating with every speeding ticket?

How about the % of upheld complaints resulting from no-knock warrants and 'contacts' with a SWAT team or other heavily armed and aggressive special police task force (drug interdiction unit etc)? I bet that number goes WAY up.

No, your average ticket writer isn't throwing grenades into cribs, or killing people after getting the wrong address on a warrant, but it's happening.
 

Cotton

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I watched the video and discovered that they didn't say who determined whether a case was "sustained" or not, which is what I expected. Also, I would hope that a low % of police 'contacts' would result in abuse. Was anyone here suggesting that everyone gets a free beating with every speeding ticket?

How about the % of upheld complaints resulting from no-knock warrants and 'contacts' with a SWAT team or other heavily armed and aggressive special police task force (drug interdiction unit etc)? I bet that number goes WAY up.

No, your average ticket writer isn't throwing grenades into cribs, or killing people after getting the wrong address on a warrant, but it's happening.
Okay, then let's throw out the valid part of the equation and just focus on complaints. 26,000 excessive force complaints total. That's .049% of all contacts made.
 

Clay_Allison

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Okay, then let's throw out the valid part of the equation and just focus on complaints. 26,000 excessive force complaints total. That's .049% of all contacts made.
As the video said, that's ALL CONTACTS, including asking for directions. So it includes the biggest possible sample for the smallest possible number. As I said before, it's clearly not broken down into the most problematic types of contacts like SWAT, contact with minorities, etc.

Also, all FBI statistics are based on voluntary reporting and not all departments participate. I noticed their estimated number of cops nationwide was much lower than the estimates I've read recently. Could very well be that the departments not reporting their stats might be the ones with something to hide.
 

Cotton

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As the video said, that's ALL CONTACTS, including asking for directions. So it includes the biggest possible sample for the smallest possible number. As I said before, it's clearly not broken down into the most problematic types of contacts like SWAT, contact with minorities, etc.

Also, all FBI statistics are based on voluntary reporting and not all departments participate. I noticed their estimated number of cops nationwide was much lower than the estimates I've read recently. Could very well be that the departments not reporting their stats might be the ones with something to hide.
The contacts stat was not FBI, it was the Bureau of Justice. And, you can hemhaw all you want, but those statistics are very telling.
 

Clay_Allison

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The contacts stat was not FBI, it was the Bureau of Justice. And, you can hemhaw all you want, but those statistics are very telling.
If you want to wave your hands in the air and say "Nothing to see here!" sure it is. Continue the war on drugs, keep doing no-knock raids without checking your GPS while seeking minute amounts of pot, just so long as we have enough other "contacts" to keep a meaningless statistic down.
 

Cotton

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If you want to wave your hands in the air and say "Nothing to see here!" sure it is. Continue the war on drugs, keep doing no-knock raids without checking your GPS while seeking minute amounts of pot, just so long as we have enough other "contacts" to keep a meaningless statistic down.
Less than half of 1/10th of a percent. Even watered down that is, again, a very telling stat. So, say that number jumps all the way to 1% when you take out incidental contact that doesn't apply, which would be a 2000% jump, that's still a very low number.
 

Clay_Allison

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Less than half of 1/10th of a percent. Even watered down that is, again, a very telling stat. So, say that number jumps all the way to 1% when you take out incidental contact that doesn't apply, which would be a 2000% jump, that's still a very low number.
If you focus on the actual problem areas in policing, where the actual improvement needs to be made, I think you would find the number skyrocketing much further than that.

For the abuse cases that arise from normal situations, just fire the bad cops and send them to prison. Then the good cops won't have to deal with the fallout from them being protected and still on the force. That's an easy fix. Unfortunately too many abuse cases result in administrative leave and the guy continuing to be employed as a cop, even if he's fired he'll be on another department before he misses a paycheck.
 

Cotton

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If you focus on the actual problem areas in policing, where the actual improvement needs to be made, I think you would find the number skyrocketing much further than that.

For the abuse cases that arise from normal situations, just fire the bad cops and send them to prison. Then the good cops won't have to deal with the fallout from them being protected and still on the force. That's an easy fix. Unfortunately too many abuse cases result in administrative leave and the guy continuing to be employed as a cop, even if he's fired he'll be on another department before he misses a paycheck.
Well yeah, if you only take into account the cops doing stupid shit of course the number is going to be a lot higher. :lol
 

Clay_Allison

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Well yeah, if you only take into account the cops doing stupid shit of course the number is going to be a lot higher. :lol
If you count unnecessary SWAT raids for drugs as cops doing stupid shit, I agree with you.
 

Cowboysrock55

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No offense but that's a pretty meaningless statistic. The amount of excessive force that never results in an actual complaint being filed is extremely high. For a number of reasons, one of which is that people know once they file a complaint it's not going to go anywhere or likely to garner any type of results. Which is also indicative the the low percentage of cases that are "substantiated." Many people also fear filing a complaint due to retaliation by the officers. I don't think there is any other profession where the "good old boy" mentality is stronger. Meaning one officer will stick up for another even if they know what that officer did was wrong. The statistic and the video add up to nothing more then propaganda.
 

Cotton

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No offense but that's a pretty meaningless statistic. The amount of excessive force that never results in an actual complaint being filed is extremely high. For a number of reasons, one of which is that people know once they file a complaint it's not going to go anywhere or likely to garner any type of results. Which is also indicative the the low percentage of cases that are "substantiated." Many people also fear filing a complaint due to retaliation by the officers. I don't think there is any other profession where the "good old boy" mentality is stronger. Meaning one officer will stick up for another even if they know what that officer did was wrong. The statistic and the video add up to nothing more then propaganda.
Objection, your honor. Circumstantial Evidence.
 

L.T. Fan

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No offense but that's a pretty meaningless statistic. The amount of excessive force that never results in an actual complaint being filed is extremely high. For a number of reasons, one of which is that people know once they file a complaint it's not going to go anywhere or likely to garner any type of results. Which is also indicative the the low percentage of cases that are "substantiated." Many people also fear filing a complaint due to retaliation by the officers. I don't think there is any other profession where the "good old boy" mentality is stronger. Meaning one officer will stick up for another even if they know what that officer did was wrong. The statistic and the video add up to nothing more then propaganda.
Wouldn't be a little bias would you? :art
 
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