Murray vs Peterson?

mschmidt64 said:

Murray has always been good but this is too big a jump for me to think its him.

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The dude has averaged 4.9 yards per carry on his career. Last year he averaged 5.2 yards per carry. As a rookie he averaged 5.5 yards per carry. This isn't some massive jump for Murray, this is the first time he has stayed healthy and been used properly by the offensive coordinator. You'd prefer backs like Lacy who can only manage about 4 ypc?

Giovani Bernard is just laughable to take over Murray. Unless you like guys who get less per carry and have never had more then 695 yards rushing in a season. Sometimes you say things that are just ridiculous.

Even though I know Murray probably won't last more than maybe 2-3 years following this season, I also realize that our window with Romo is short and we should try to capitalize on that as much as we can, at least now that it's apparent that Romo's health is fine. So that's the main reason I want to bring Murray back, because it maximizes our window and keeps the chemistry of the team together, assuming this season continues down the path that it is on.

On the other hand, I want to draft a RB relatively high this year whether we re-sign Murray or not. So if the plan is to save money on a shorter deal with a guy in Peterson who could potentially be better than Murray, and then back that up with a 2nd rounder like Abduallah or Tevin Coleman to split carries and be the future at the position, then I'm down with that.

I don't know if I can say that Murray is the best back in the NFL right now. No slight to him, but I think guys likes Bell and Foster are on par with him...and when their offense is right, McCoy might be the guy I consider the best. No slight to Murray, he has been great.

mschmidt64 said:

The OL is too dominant. Murray has always been good but this is too big a jump for me to think its him.

Plus I see the holes they are giving him.

He's playing really well but Beast Mode he is not. Or LeSean McCoy, who has struggled behind a bad OL in Philly (shocking!).

It is kinda amazing how bad the talent is at RB in this league right now though.

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The problem with your OL domination argument is that this has to be the best OL that has ever played in the NFL because they allowed Murray to do something no other RB has ever done. Are you prepared to say this is the best OL that has ever played in the NFL?

L.T. Fan said:

The problem with your OL domination argument is that this has to be the best OL that has ever played in the NFL because they allowed Murray to do something no other RB has ever done. Are you prepared to say this is the best OL that has ever played in the NFL?

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It doesn't have to be that extreme. It is not a slight to Murray to not recognize him as the best RB in the game right now...he certainly is the most productive though. All positions are debateable...Manning is probably thought of as the best QB in the game now, but I think he has better tools than Rodgers...is that a slight to him?

Carp said:

It doesn't have to be that extreme. It is not a slight to Murray to not recognize him as the best RB in the game right now...he certainly is the most productive though. All positions are debateable...Manning is probably thought of as the best QB in the game now, but I think he has better tools than Rodgers...is that a slight to him?

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It is an extreme statement but Schmidt is too quick to point out that the OL is the principal reason that Murray is having success. If it were a case where Murray was leading the league in rushing this view would be more reasonable but the fact is Murray has already accomplished something no one else has so, I can't just write that off as being an accomplishment that is principally due to the OL. At the same time I don't make the claim that Murray is the best RB ever but I do think he is as good as any and better than most currently.

Carp said:

I don't know if I can say that Murray is the best back in the NFL right now. No slight to him, but I think guys likes Bell and Foster are on par with him...and when their offense is right, McCoy might be the guy I consider the best. No slight to Murray, he has been great.

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You fucking extremist, you make me sick.

L.T. Fan said:

It is an extreme statement but Schmidt is too quick to point out that the OL is the principal reason that Murray is having success. If it were a case where Murray was leading the league in rushing this view would be more reasonable but the fact is Murray has already accomplished something no one else has so, I can't just write that off as being an accomplishment that is principally due to the OL. At the same time I don't make the claim that Murray is the best RB ever but I do think he is as good as any and better than most currently.

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The OL is the principal thing separating Murray from having 900 yards right now, and being within striking distance of the rest of the pack.

He's a good back -- even a Pro Bowl back -- but to say he's definitely the best just because he's on top of the rushing charts ignores the OLs effect inflating his numbers, which all good/great OLs do.

He's somewhere in that group of guys I named. Frankly with AP out of the mix I'm not sure there is any guy who is say is clearly, 100% better than the others. Gun to my head, I'd say McCoy.

They all have the potential though and Murray is in that group. He's having a great year but again, there is no way he's my pick if I'm starting a team from scratch.

Dallas needs a draft pick. This new blueprint calls for run-pass balance but sorely lacks depth at RB. The team should have at least two strong backs at a time.

Chargers lost Mathews and threw in Oliver. We lose Murray and we are no longer an elite team. With the breakaway threat he provides we are as good as anyone.

mschmidt64 said:

The OL is the principal thing separating Murray from having 900 yards right now, and being within striking distance of the rest of the pack.

He's a good back -- even a Pro Bowl back -- but to say he's definitely the best just because he's on top of the rushing charts ignores the OLs effect inflating his numbers, which all good/great OLs do.

He's somewhere in that group of guys I named. Frankly with AP out of the mix I'm not sure there is any guy who is say is clearly, 100% better than the others. Gun to my head, I'd say McCoy.

They all have the potential though and Murray is in that group. He's having a great year but again, there is no way he's my pick if I'm starting a team from scratch.

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When someone says he is the best them you can continue your ramblings. What I said was that he has accomplished something no other RB has ever done and was one of the current best. What I take issue with your statement is that his successes are principally attributed o the OL. That is just a personal conclusion you arbitrarily decided on with no supporting basis for doing so. It's essentially saying anyone could have done the same with the same OL. That's just your subjective logic.

L.T. Fan said:

When someone says he is the best them you can continue your ramblings. What I said was that he has accomplished something no other RB has ever done and was one of the current best. What I take issue with your statement is that his successes are principally attributed o the OL. That is just a personal conclusion you arbitrarily decided on with no supporting basis for doing so. It's essentially saying anyone could have done the same with the same OL. That's just your subjective logic.

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Murray averaged over 7 YPC vs the Packers last season and set the Cowboys single-game rushing record in 2011. There are times when he has been dominant.

Add in the OL and the combination is powerful. Throw in Dez, Witten, Williams and Romo behind center and the sum total can be unstoppable because the defense can't pick any single poison to counter.

There is a huge dropoff when John Randle or Lance Dunbar starts trying to run the ball, just like when Lincoln Coleman or Robert Lavette tried taking over for Emmitt back in the day.

The commitment to Murray has been just as important as any improvement in the offensive line as been.

With that behind him Romo can become one of the best QB's in Dallas history.

ravidubey said:

Murray averaged over 7 YPC vs the Packers last season and set the Cowboys single-game rushing record in 2011. There are times when he has been dominant.

Add in the OL and the combination is powerful. Throw in Dez, Witten, Williams and Romo behind center and the sum total can be unstoppable because the defense can't pick any single poison to counter.

There is a huge dropoff when John Randle or Lance Dunbar starts trying to run the ball, just like when Lincoln Coleman or Robert Lavette tried taking over for Emmitt back in the day.

The commitment to Murray has been just as important as any improvement in the offensive line as been.

With that behind him Romo can become one of the best QB's in Dallas history.

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Ravi. Surely you aren't saying Murray is a difference maker.

mschmidt64 said:

I agree.

If Murrary wants 4-5 years, for $30 million or more, and you can get Peterson for like 3 years, $15-$20 million because he wants to be in Dallas (he'd have a passing game supporting him for once, maybe sees a chance for some postseason success, and Texas is home for him), I think I go with Peterson.

He's a better player and it's not really a question.... or at least he was. Obviously you don't do it if you think he's running out of gas. But frankly Peterson is an All-Timer, and that's the kind of player you roll the dice on. Murray might be Jamal Lewis who burns out after his 2000 yard season.

Then yeah, you go draft a back in the 3rd round in the next year or two.

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Hey, this is not Madden.

Jiggyfly said:

Hey, this is not Madden.

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Damn you're dumb.

What makes Murray such a perfect fit for this power running game is....well, his power.

Peterson is powerful because he's just this athletic freak, but he doesn't punish defenders week in and week out like Murray. Watching him just abuse the bully Seahawks defense in the 4th was an absolute thing of beauty.

He's the perfect fit for what we're doing and the chemistry is already there. Just bring him back.

ravidubey said:

There is a huge dropoff when John Randle or Lance Dunbar starts trying to run the ball, just like when Lincoln Coleman or Robert Lavette tried taking over for Emmitt back in the day.

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Damn. Now THAT would have been tough.

L.T. Fan said:

When someone says he is the best them you can continue your ramblings.

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Uh.....

http://www.dallascowboyscentral.com/showthread.php?3779-Murray-vs-Peterson&p=145326&viewfull=1#post145326

It's essentially saying anyone could have done the same with the same OL. That's just your subjective logic.

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No, it's actually nothing like saying that, nor is that what I'm claiming. Obviously the Sherman Williams of the world still can't run behind elite OLs.

L.T. Fan said:

Ravi. Surely you aren't saying Murray is a difference maker.

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He's a total beast. To stay that way, we need to get him help. This needs to become a committee of two good backs and a third change-of-pace guy.

Isn't there astat that has Murray leading in rushing yds after get gets past the blocking of his OL?

kidd said:

Isn't there astat that has Murray leading in rushing yds after get gets past the blocking of his OL?

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PFF keeps track of yards after first contact and until first contact but you have to be a subscriber to see them iirc