NFL versus NBA - Which one is tougher and stuff

ravidubey

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The high school to pro rate is .03% in NBA vs .08% in the NFL.

Things in the NBA that make competition harder for rookies than the NFL:

- Smaller roster size (15 vs 53). There are 546,335 college bound basketball players for every 1,071,775 football players but they are competing for about 1/3 the number of spots.

- Less Attrition. There were only 17 NBA retirements total in 2014-2015 and the youngest was 29

- Flexible salary cap (Larry Bird rule, luxury tax) tailored to veterans allows more existing players to be retained than revenue can support

- Smaller cap. 63 million vs 148 million. NBA rookie min is $507,336 vs $435,000 in NFL, but counts for .8% of the cap vs .3% of the NFL cap

Things in the NBA that make it easier for rookies than the NFL:

- More bang for buck. Each NBA player has 3-4 times the impact of an NFL player, so while they count a larger percentage of the cap (8:3), they represent more value making the ratio closer to 2:3 or 1:3.
 

peplaw06

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The point is that you can mitigate losing a great player in the NFL easier than you can in the NBA. Dez is a top 5 WR, but he has a limited role and impact when you consider that he's reliant on what the OL does, what the QB does, then you have to consider the impact that a defense has, a completely different unit that is on the field for roughly half the game that Dez has no direct bearing on. A top 10 player in NFL has a compartmentalized job compared to a top 10 player in the NBA.

The inherent nature of basketball is what makes it so much more difficult to replace truly elite players, there is less strategy, there is no substitute for natural talent in the NBA because you can't scheme around certain weaknesses/deficiencies like you can in the NFL, generally speaking. A guy like LeBron or Anthony Davis has an impact on literally everything that happens on the court, offensively and defensively, and the fact that there are only 10 players on the court at any given time, as well as 12 players on a team, make elite individuals in the NBA more important to their team than elite individuals in the NFL, outside of QB's.

Draft picks are important in any sport but if you ask any NBA fan they'll tell you that the chance of landing a truly impact player if you're picking outside of the top 10-15 picks is very small, that obviously isn't the case in the NFL. The bottom line is that in the NFL you can be an elite player in a certain set of circumstances but not elite in another, that is not the case in the NBA, which gets to my point that natural talent wins in the NBA whereas in the NFL you can scheme around certain things easier or enhance certain players based on their surroundings. It's also easier to miss on football players because a player in college could be falsely enhanced based on their surroundings (Alabama players, USC QB's, etc.) or covered up due to the anonymity of their team or lack of surrounding talent.

The best way to look at it is in the NBA basically every single one of the top 20-30 players in the league went in the 1st round of the draft, the vast majority in the top 5 or 10. If you look at the top players in the NFL it's littered with guys who went in the back half of the draft. Also, in the NFL you have countless guys like James Harrison, Jimmy Smith, Tony Romo, Antonio Gates, Jeff Saturday, Kurt Warner, Arian Foster and Brian Waters who either go undrafted or spend years in obscurity, sometimes bouncing around from team to team, before they cement themselves as elite players, or even HOF'ers.

That literally never happens in the NBA outside of one guy in Ben Wallace, and you could argue that he was basically just a product of his surroundings because he was only asked to rebound and defend, with literally no real offensive responsibilities. You never see guys in the NBA who go undrafted, or are cut, bouncing around from team to team, never playing for years and then all of a sudden they're a superstar, that alone tells you that finding elite players in the NBA is much more difficult.
There is so much good stuff in here... like I originally said, this isn't a topic I wanted to discuss in this thread. I'd happily discuss it in another thread though.

But I'll just say this... the comparison isn't out of left field or anything. There are points on either side that are compelling. To just dismiss a comparison as dumb or common sense just because doesn't do anything to help advance the conversation, and it's lazy.

Oh and there are more undrafted NBA players than Ben Wallace. Maybe not elite players, but the chances are so much smaller because the pool of players is smaller. And the original tweet wasn't about elite NBA players. It was about the 3rd or 4th roster guy on a middle of the road team versus one of the best, if not the best, player at his position in the NFL.
 

Cotton

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NFL versus NBA - Which one is tougher and stuff

In here, you bunch of thread hijackers.
 

Jiggyfly

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The point is that you can mitigate losing a great player in the NFL easier than you can in the NBA. Dez is a top 5 WR, but he has a limited role and impact when you consider that he's reliant on what the OL does, what the QB does, then you have to consider the impact that a defense has, a completely different unit that is on the field for roughly half the game that Dez has no direct bearing on. A top 10 player in NFL has a compartmentalized job compared to a top 10 player in the NBA.

The inherent nature of basketball is what makes it so much more difficult to replace truly elite players, there is less strategy, there is no substitute for natural talent in the NBA because you can't scheme around certain weaknesses/deficiencies like you can in the NFL, generally speaking. A guy like LeBron or Anthony Davis has an impact on literally everything that happens on the court, offensively and defensively, and the fact that there are only 10 players on the court at any given time, as well as 12 players on a team, make elite individuals in the NBA more important to their team than elite individuals in the NFL, outside of QB's.

Draft picks are important in any sport but if you ask any NBA fan they'll tell you that the chance of landing a truly impact player if you're picking outside of the top 10-15 picks is very small, that obviously isn't the case in the NFL. The bottom line is that in the NFL you can be an elite player in a certain set of circumstances but not elite in another, that is not the case in the NBA, which gets to my point that natural talent wins in the NBA whereas in the NFL you can scheme around certain things easier or enhance certain players based on their surroundings. It's also easier to miss on football players because a player in college could be falsely enhanced based on their surroundings (Alabama players, USC QB's, etc.) or covered up due to the anonymity of their team or lack of surrounding talent.

The best way to look at it is in the NBA basically every single one of the top 20-30 players in the league went in the 1st round of the draft, the vast majority in the top 5 or 10. If you look at the top players in the NFL it's littered with guys who went in the back half of the draft. Also, in the NFL you have countless guys like James Harrison, Jimmy Smith, Tony Romo, Antonio Gates, Jeff Saturday, Kurt Warner, Arian Foster and Brian Waters who either go undrafted or spend years in obscurity, sometimes bouncing around from team to team, before they cement themselves as elite players, or even HOF'ers.

That literally never happens in the NBA outside of one guy in Ben Wallace, and you could argue that he was basically just a product of his surroundings because he was only asked to rebound and defend, with literally no real offensive responsibilities. You never see guys in the NBA who go undrafted, or are cut, bouncing around from team to team, never playing for years and then all of a sudden they're a superstar, that alone tells you that finding elite players in the NBA is much more difficult.
Link?
 

Simpleton

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There is so much good stuff in here... like I originally said, this isn't a topic I wanted to discuss in this thread. I'd happily discuss it in another thread though.

But I'll just say this... the comparison isn't out of left field or anything. There are points on either side that are compelling. To just dismiss a comparison as dumb or common sense just because doesn't do anything to help advance the conversation, and it's lazy.

Oh and there are more undrafted NBA players than Ben Wallace. Maybe not elite players, but the chances are so much smaller because the pool of players is smaller. And the original tweet wasn't about elite NBA players. It was about the 3rd or 4th roster guy on a middle of the road team versus one of the best, if not the best, player at his position in the NFL.
There are several undrafted players but Wallace is the only one you could categorize as elite, and like I said, much of that was due to his surroundings. The only undrafted players in the league, or guys who bounce around for a few years, are roleplayers, I can't think of one single guy outside of Wallace in the past 20+ years that you could characterize as a superstar or elite that were either undrafted, bounced around from team to team in obscurity, or both.

I don't know what the original tweet was about but if it's about the fact that Dez is being paid like an above average NBA player then the simple explanation is that its economics with regard to the league revenues/TV deals and supply/demand.
 

Rev

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Not as tough as NHL.
 

Cotton

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peplaw06

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:lol

That was funny, but Pep needed a link or anything you said was anecdotal.

It's evident either he was extremely bored or has very little idea of how valuable each player is in the NBA.
No, Simpleton's post was clear and thorough, and wasn't filled with fake statistics.

If you want to post a statistic, be prepared to back it up.

Or you could whine some more.
 

Jiggyfly

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No, Simpleton's post was clear and thorough, and wasn't filled with fake statistics.

If you want to post a statistic, be prepared to back it up.

Or you could whine some more.
Yes his post was thorough but I said essentially the same thing.

But since you need a link and stats here you go.

http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

As opposed to football

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_2.php



So to sum it up Football has about a 50% hit rate on 1st round picks while Basketball is much less.
 
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Texas Ace

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Why a new thread and title change for this? Didn't this happen with the RB talk recently as well?

These new threads are teh ghey.
 

Cotton

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Why a new thread and title change for this? Didn't this happen with the RB talk recently as well?

These new threads are teh ghey.
Because what they were arguing had jack nor shit to do with the thread they were in, and I don't want the thread all muddled up. If you have issue with it you can place your complaint in that box over that that says, "I don't give a shit".
 

L.T. Fan

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Because what they were arguing had jack nor shit to do with the thread they were in, and I don't want the thread all muddled up. If you have issue with it you can place your complaint in that box over that that says, "I don't give a shit".
Why a new thread and title change for this? Didn't this happen with the RB talk recently as well?

These new threads are teh ghey.
There are very few threads that do not evolve in discussion but this is one of the first hybrid sports threads I can recall.
 
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