2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Cowboysrock55

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I listened to it and heard "aren't."
Aren't doesn't even make sense in that context. It's not like she was talking about Trump raising taxes. And who brags about not raising taxes on the middle class? That's like bragging that you won't kill puppies.

She definitely said "are" but I think what she intended to say was that she was raising taxes on the upper class. She just had a slip of the tongue instead.
 

2233boys

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If you can give me Universal Healthcare without raising taxes I would be all for it. The problem is that in order to do that government would have to cut their crazy amount of spending somewhere else and they would never do that.
You can't have something for free. There would have to be a raise in taxes but the increase in taxes would likely be less than what you pay per year for your coverage and deductibles. I know under Bernie's plan my health care costs would have been cut in half. (considering what I pay in deductibles and premiums)
 

2233boys

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Aren't doesn't even make sense in that context. It's not like she was talking about Trump raising taxes. And who brags about not raising taxes on the middle class? That's like bragging that you won't kill puppies.

She definitely said "are" but I think what she intended to say was that she was raising taxes on the upper class. She just had a slip of the tongue instead.
I despise Hillary, and was all excited to catch her in another lie but it does make sense in the context of the speech.

We are going to create fairer rules for the middle class and we aren't going to raise taxes on the middle class.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You can't have something for free. There would have to be a raise in taxes but the increase in taxes would likely be less than what you pay per year for your coverage and deductibles. I know under Bernie's plan my health care costs would have been cut in half. (considering what I pay in deductibles and premiums)
See and to me that's no different then forcing someone to pay for the health insurance that they don't want. I already pay a small fortune in taxes. Why should I pay more so that I can be serviced by another shitty government agency?

Maybe government should find a way to cut back on the massive military spending and sending stacks of cash to foreign countries. Knowing how poorly the government runs everything, I don't see how anyone could justify giving them more money and more power.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I despise Hillary, and was all excited to catch her in another lie but it does make sense in the context of the speech.

We are going to create fairer rules for the middle class and we aren't going to raise taxes on the middle class.
So you literally think she went from talking about Trump cutting taxes into, well hey I won't raise your taxes? Like I said, that's like bragging you won't kill someone's dog after talking about your opponent giving away puppies. Not exactly something you thank someone for.
 

L.T. Fan

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Yeah I don't buy the republican party had the public interest in mind, they haven't demonstrated that in any of their policy, since I have been alive. This has been one of the most obstructionist congress ever. That they haven't held a hearing on the Scotus nominee, is just more evidence.

The ACA isn't great, and something better needs to be done. It is unconscionable that just across the boarder you can get the same drugs for half the price. It is a national embarrassment, that we have millions who are still uncovered because they can't afford health insurance.

Every time there is health care reform from both parties there are a majority of our elected officials looking our for the pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
You are predicting the motives of health care act to be primarily at the feet of the Republicians but the timing of it would seem to refute that. The dems held the majority position so it would have been foolish for the Republicans to introduce a bill of this nature to the process. Even if there was a reason to think that the insurance lobby was in play there are plenty of dems in their pockets.

This program was clearly the baby of the democrats namely Obama and Pelosi leading the way. This particular plan was resurrected from prior dem health care proposals and tweaked with the Obama spin for certain things but it has been in their agenda for years. The dems are the banner carrier for pushing toward socialized medicine and the program was the first step. It also has features in it that are designed to be rolled out after he leaves office.

The insurance companies are beneficiaries regardless of party ownership so thinking that only republicans are their lobby targets wouldn't be correct. This was passed on Obama's watch with his tweaks via his advisors and staff and washed into the congressional stream while they could bulldoze it through.
 

Genghis Khan

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Yeah I don't buy the republican party had the public interest in mind, they haven't demonstrated that in any of their policy, since I have been alive.
This is generally a major misconception of republican policy.

Of course republican policy has the public interest in mind.

Just because you aren't trying to Robin Hood every problem and instead would rather confront the root of the problem doesn't mean you don't have the public interest in mind.
 

2233boys

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So you literally think she went from talking about Trump cutting taxes into, well hey I won't raise your taxes? Like I said, that's like bragging you won't kill someone's dog after talking about your opponent giving away puppies. Not exactly something you thank someone for.
No but I think she went from saying she will create fairer rules for the middle class to we aren't raising taxes.
 

2233boys

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You are predicting the motives of health care act to be primarily at the feet of the Republicians but the timing of it would seem to refute that. The dems held the majority position so it would have been foolish for the Republicans to introduce a bill of this nature to the process. Even if there was a reason to think that the insurance lobby was in play there are plenty of dems in their pockets.
I know the democrats were in the majority then, we were talking about Republicans obstructionism as a motive for their dislike for the program, nothing more. I agree both are in the pockets of the insurance companies.

This program was clearly the baby of the democrats namely Obama and Pelosi leading the way. This particular plan was resurrected from prior dem health care proposals and tweaked with the Obama spin for certain things but it has been in their agenda for years. The dems are the banner carrier for pushing toward socialized medicine and the program was the first step. It also has features in it that are designed to be rolled out after he leaves office.
It was certainly brought forth by a democratic president but the ACA (is based off a GOP program) and it isn't a socialized medicine program or a program that a majority of Progressives (not corporate dems who are GOP lite in my book, including our current nominee)

Universal Healthcare is something completly different from what we currently have, this is akin to corporate welfare in my eyes.

The insurance companies are beneficiaries regardless of party ownership so thinking that only republicans are their lobby targets wouldn't be correct. This was passed on Obama's watch with his tweaks via his advisors and staff and washed into the congressional stream while they could bulldoze it through.
Again, your party and my party are corporate whores! I didn't say the republicans proposed the ACA, but their fight of it wasn't about the interests of Americans, but because they wanted to oppose Obama.
 

2233boys

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This is generally a major misconception of republican policy.

Of course republican policy has the public interest in mind.

Just because you aren't trying to Robin Hood every problem and instead would rather confront the root of the problem doesn't mean you don't have the public interest in mind.
No it isn't, but I'm reasonable, please provide my instances of what you are saying.
 

townsend

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Honestly more than universal healthcare, or healthcare insurance plans, I think we need to actively prosecute price gouging in the medical field. A hospital shouldn't be able to earn 5000 percent profit on medical supplies and services. Patients aren't allowed to price shop, in fact they (and their physicians) have no idea what they're even going to be charged, because the numbers are being pulled out of the air.

If I need surgery, charge me for the cost incurred by OR usage, by that surgeon/anasthesiologist/nurses pay, any disposable equipment used, any cleaning and sanitation fees. Fees for any expensive equipment used. Mark all of it with a fat markup (even 500%) but you can't pull numbers out of the air. It should be based on an incurred expense.
 

Genghis Khan

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No it isn't, but I'm reasonable, please provide my instances of what you are saying.
:lol I am not doing your work for you.

To be honest, making a blanket statement that the republican party hasn't had the public interest in mind for any of their policies in the entirety of your lifetime is completely UNreasonable and a hallmark for why discourse is so fractured in this country.

You can disagree with their policies and ideals, but to state that they have never had the public interest in mind in your lifetime is patently absurd, ignorant, and anathema to healthy societal progress.

Republicans are not cartoonish 80s movie villains fueled by greed, hate and selfishness. That's a liberal narrative designed to incite people to vote with their emotions instead of rationality.
 

Genghis Khan

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Honestly more than universal healthcare, or healthcare insurance plans, I think we need to actively prosecute price gouging in the medical field. A hospital shouldn't be able to earn 5000 percent profit on medical supplies and services. Patients aren't allowed to price shop, in fact they (and their physicians) have no idea what they're even going to be charged, because the numbers are being pulled out of the air.

If I need surgery, charge me for the cost incurred by OR usage, by that surgeon/anasthesiologist/nurses pay, any disposable equipment used, any cleaning and sanitation fees. Fees for any expensive equipment used. Mark all of it with a fat markup (even 500%) but you can't pull numbers out of the air. It should be based on an incurred expense.
I couldn't agree more and it is a big root of the problem.
 

Cowboysrock55

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No but I think she went from saying she will create fairer rules for the middle class to we aren't raising taxes.
So fairer taxes to her is "I won't raise them?" If that is her platform then she can go F herself. Yeah no change in taxes for middle class will improve things! I guess I should thank her for not kicking my dog too.
 

townsend

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So fairer taxes to her is "I won't raise them?" If that is her platform then she can go F herself. Yeah no change in taxes for middle class will improve things! I guess I should thank her for not kicking my dog too.
You've gone full drunk uncle. Next time you're going to post absolute proof that Hillary wasn't born in this country too. You're like the white Dinesh D'Souza.

Meanwhile Trump is asking why we can't use nukes to solve are problems. But no Hillary's lack of adjustments on middle class tax rates is really something to get fired up about.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You've gone full drunk uncle. Next time you're going to post absolute proof that Hillary wasn't born in this country too. You're like the white Dinesh D'Souza.

Meanwhile Trump is asking why we can't use nukes to solve are problems. But no Hillary's lack of adjustments on middle class tax rates is really something to get fired up about.
Yeah, things that will actually impact our lives matter far more to me than your obscure fear that Trump would lead to the end of the world.

Bragging that you won't raise my taxes is ridiculous. I seriously doubt that's what she was trying to say either.
 

2233boys

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:lol I am not doing your work for you.

To be honest, making a blanket statement that the republican party hasn't had the public interest in mind for any of their policies in the entirety of your lifetime is completely UNreasonable and a hallmark for why discourse is so fractured in this country.

You can disagree with their policies and ideals, but to state that they have never had the public interest in mind in your lifetime is patently absurd, ignorant, and anathema to healthy societal progress.

Republicans are not cartoonish 80s movie villains fueled by greed, hate and selfishness. That's a liberal narrative designed to incite people to vote with their emotions instead of rationality.
LOL most of your description aptly fits the republican party, much of the republican party since Nixon and certainly their most vocal advocates.

Prove me wrong. I can't think of one thing. Saying you aren't doing my work me, makes it sound like you don't have anything.
 

2233boys

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So fairer taxes to her is "I won't raise them?" If that is her platform then she can go F herself. Yeah no change in taxes for middle class will improve things! I guess I should thank her for not kicking my dog too.
She said it to win votes, she did it in the primary too.

All a bunch of BS, that you can't possibly promise and govern efficiently in my mind.
 
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