Spagnola: Don’t Be Taking A Player At No. 4 In The NFL Draft Just Because

Jiggyfly · Apr 25, 2016

boozeman said:
I will probably vomit if we pick him, but it is not like he can't play.

I am more fearful of our own inadequacies to get the best out of him than I am his ability.

I just think he is not worth the pick if all you are going to do is line him up at CB. I also think he's a waste in regards to how Marinelli uses safeties.

If we had a creative DC and a multiple scheme, he would be much more appealing.

So we just ignore all of the different things he was doing with Jones last year and of what Jackson got out of his safeties in San Fran?

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2016

NoDak said:
Who is saying he can't play corner and he can't play safety?

Just making light of him saying he's a CB while NFL scouts call him a safety. The position they don't want him to play or the position he doesn't want to play.

That confusion concerns me.

He's an exciting player, no doubt about it with the energy he brings, but will it translate to the NFL, especially with Jones playing the same position.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 25, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
Jones stock fell because he was hurt a lot in career if he had stayed healthy and came out in this draft he would be a top 10 pick.

He was getting some top 15 buzz last year.

Ramsey played longer more injury free and against better competition more consistently.

It's funny when the Ramsey deniers continue to ignore everything he has done since starting in the ACC as a freshman.

If Jones was a 5* player coming out of highschool going to FSU I think he would have ended up a top 10 player. That's where some of Ramsey's hype comes from.

Smitty · Apr 25, 2016

I we pick Ramsey and play him at corner, we will be disappointed again. Not calling any level of bust, but he will underwhelm at that position for sure.

I'm not sure he's an all pro safety either but he's better there.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 25, 2016

mschmidt64 said:
I we pick Ramsey and play him at corner, we will be disappointed again. Not calling any level of bust, but he will underwhelm at that position for sure.

I'm not sure he's an all pro safety either but he's better there.

Purely as a corner who would you rather have. William Jackson III and an extra second round pick or Ramsey? My answer is easily William Jackson III. Or how about either Ramsey or Karl Joseph and a future first round pick? We already have the versatile corner/safety in Jones. So the versatility doesn't mean anything to me. I just want a guy that can play one position really well.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2016

mschmidt64 said:
I we pick Ramsey and play him at corner, we will be disappointed again. Not calling any level of bust, but he will underwhelm at that position for sure.

I'm not sure he's an all pro safety either but he's better there.

I'd have to agree. They want a playmaker, and by being in center field he'll have more chances to do his thing.

I'm accepting now that they are certainly drafting Ramsey if he's available. He certainly brings a lot of energy, and lord knows our team needs that.

I can hold out slim hopes for Buckner or Elliott, but I don't think Dallas will do either since Buckner isn't "quick twitch" and Elliott isn't a Razorback.

Amazing how this team hasn't learned you can't build around a secondary.

Ramsey will make it two top ten picks, another 1st rounder, $50 million on Carr, and another 20 million on Scandrick. Unreal.

Cotton · Apr 25, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
Purely as a corner who would you rather have. William Jackson III and an extra second round pick or Ramsey? My answer is easily William Jackson III. Or how about either Ramsey or Karl Joseph and a future first round pick? We already have the versatile corner/safety in Jones. So the versatility doesn't mean anything to me. I just want a guy that can play one position really well.

My choice would be Jackson, and it's not even close.

Jiggyfly · Apr 25, 2016

ravidubey said:
I'd have to agree. They want a playmaker, and by being in center field he'll have more chances to do his thing.

I'm accepting now that they are certainly drafting Ramsey if he's available. He certainly brings a lot of energy, and lord knows our team needs that.

I can hold out slim hopes for Buckner or Elliott, but I don't think Dallas will do either since Buckner isn't "quick twitch" and Elliott isn't a Razorback.

Amazing how this team hasn't learned you can't build around a secondary.

Ramsey will make it two top ten picks, another 1st rounder, $50 million on Carr, and another 20 million on Scandrick. Unreal.

Go look at what Denver put into there secondary and get back to me.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
Go look at what Denver put into there secondary and get back to me.

I'm not a "db's are bit players" shipper... by far-- you might remember the (many) pointed discussions I had with sbk and schmitty over the years.

But there's no doubt you can't dump all your eggs into the secondary basket and there's also no doubt in my mind Denver is an average team without Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, and that solid interior front no matter who's in the defensive backfield.

The secondary and linebacking are just not as impactful as the defensive line. You know this to be true.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 25, 2016

Iamtdg said:
My choice would be Jackson, and it's not even close.

That's how I feel. 20 + passes defensed and 5 picks. And QBs completed like under 40% of passes at him. Those are eye popping numbers. And on top of that oh yeah he is long and ran a 4.3 something forty.

townsend · Apr 25, 2016

ravidubey said:
I'm not a "db's are bit players" shipper... by far-- you might remember the (many) pointed discussions I had with sbk and schmitty over the years.

But there's no doubt you can't dump all your eggs into the secondary basket and there's also no doubt in my mind Denver is an average team without Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, and that solid interior front no matter who's in the defensive backfield.

The secondary and linebacking are just not as impactful as the defensive line. You know this to be true.

I'd say it's debateable, I think an all star line can make a mediocre backfield look good, and an all star backfield can make a mediocre line look good. But we had some strong pass rushes with Ware, Ratliff and Spencer, and our defense still put up record worst seasons thanks to our sub par backfield.

DLK150 · Apr 25, 2016

Carp said:
Why on earth would it matter if he played S instead of CB? If you have paid attention at all in the last few years then you would know that S has been a glaring hole for a long time in Dallas. Why did you just reference Scandrick when it comes to DB additions...you forget about Jones already?

Propping up the Pats as some great drafting team is poor at best. The Pats are who they are because of a QB they took in the 6th in 2000...it certainly is not for their draft prowess. Seattle traded their 1st for Jimmy Graham and he sucked big dicks for them last year.

Dallas takes shots in the dark with players...seriously? Smith, Martin, Frederick, are all a part of the throw shit at the wall and make it stick group from the Cowboys.

Because I'm not taking a safety at #4. I didn't mean to intimate that the Pats were a great drafting team, I said they were good at finding players that fit their system. Many of those players leave via FA and never approach the level of success they had in NE. It pains to me to even admit it because I can't stand them but you can't argue with results and in the end, results are all that matter.

Yes, Dallas takes shots in the dark with draftees. Players with injury histories, character issues, guys that have good highlight films but never produce at the NFL level. Have they hit on the OL in the first round recently? Yeah, but just about every other position in pretty much every round past the first, they've been spotty at best. Feel free to run off a list of draft picks after the first round in the last twenty years that have been solid, steady, reliable contributors. Then divide by the total number of draft picks in that same time frame and calculate the percentage of hits.

I gauge a team's success in personnel decisions based off the results of the draft beyond the first round and FA signings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick up a quality player in the first or even second round.

townsend · Apr 25, 2016

DLK150 said:
Because I'm not taking a safety at #4. I didn't mean to intimate that the Pats were a great drafting team, I said they were good at finding players that fit their system. Many of those players leave via FA and never approach the level of success they had in NE. It pains to me to even admit it because I can't stand them but you can't argue with results and in the end, results are all that matter.

Yes, Dallas takes shots in the dark with draftees. Players with injury histories, character issues, guys that have good highlight films but never produce at the NFL level. Have they hit on the OL in the first round recently? Yeah, but just about every other position in pretty much every round past the first, they've been spotty at best. Feel free to run off a list of draft picks after the first round in the last twenty years that have been solid, steady, reliable contributors. Then divide by the total number of draft picks in that same time frame and calculate the percentage of hits.

I gauge a team's success in personnel decisions based off the results of the draft beyond the first round and FA signings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick up a quality player in the first or even second round.

In the Garrett era we've done fair in the 3rd round. Assuming (perhaps too optimistically) that the jury is still out on Chaz. We got a decent contributing WR in Terrence Williams, a decent DT in Crawford, a record setting RB in Murray, and a backup quality starter with Wilcox.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2016

townsend said:
I'd say it's debateable, I think an all star line can make a mediocre backfield look good, and an all star backfield can make a mediocre line look good. But we had some strong pass rushes with Ware, Ratliff and Spencer, and our defense still put up record worst seasons thanks to our sub par backfield.

Offenses will attack a defense where it's weak, and while we had some strong rushers in Ware and Ratliff, we lacked stoutness vs the run on top of having the secondary weakness you already mentioned.

Those Ware-led Dallas teams had to sacrifice to stop the run, exposing the LB's and DB's even more in coverage.

Tom Brady's Pats in 2007 stayed balanced and annihilated us with 48 points. Wade was criticized after the game for committing to stop the run. Thing is he had no choice because the entire game New England kept Dallas honest by gashing us with Kevin Faulk (of all people) whenever we'd emphasize coverage.

That's why I couldn't stand Wade's approach of putting undersized Ratliff in the middle. Notice how he totally changed his tune in Denver with a real GM in charge. Everyone is a 300 pounder and the NT is a 1st round pick.

townsend · Apr 25, 2016

ravidubey said:
Offenses will attack a defense where it's weak, and while we had some strong rushers in Ware and Ratliff, we lacked stoutness vs the run on top of having the secondary weakness you already mentioned.

Those Ware-led Dallas teams had to sacrifice to stop the run, exposing the LB's and DB's even more in coverage.

Tom Brady's Pats in 2007 stayed balanced and annihilated us with 48 points. Wade was criticized after the game for committing to stop the run. Thing is he had no choice because the entire game New England kept Dallas honest by gashing us with Kevin Faulk (of all people) whenever we'd emphasize coverage.

That's why I couldn't stand Wade's approach of putting undersized Ratliff in the middle. Notice how he totally changed his tune in Denver with a real GM in charge. Everyone is a 300 pounder and the NT is a 1st round pick.

We've been married to pint size nose tackles for a long time. It must be Jerry's fetish, because it goes all the way back to the Parcells era.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2016

townsend said:
We've been married to pint size nose tackles for a long time. It must be Jerry's fetish, because it goes all the way back to the Parcells era.

Parcells brought in Jason Ferguson to be the power in the middle, even though he was "just" 300 pounds. Fergy met that need well in 2006. When Ratliff got on the field that year it was to replace Spears, whom he routinely outplayed.

Game one 2007 Fergy went down, Ratliff replaced him and Wade reshuffled his defense to make due with the smaller/quicker approach.

Wade kept covering for Jerry who never acquired the big piece in the middle you could build around. At least he tried to.

townsend · Apr 25, 2016

ravidubey said:
Parcells brought in Jason Ferguson to be the power in the middle, even though he was "just" 300 pounds. Fergy met that need well in 2006. When Ratliff got on the field that year it was to replace Spears, whom he routinely outplayed.

Game one 2007 Fergy went down, Ratliff replaced him and Wade reshuffled his defense to make due with the smaller/quicker approach.

Wade kept covering for Jerry who never acquired the big piece in the middle you could build around. At least he tried to.

It persisted through the Ryan era, and into this year. We've been weirdly undersized at the D line regardless of formation or philosophy. Usually it ends with us getting gashed towards the end of the season.

Spagnola: Don’t Be Taking A Player At No. 4 In The NFL Draft Just Because

Jiggyfly

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