Melton Signed

Iamtdg said:

They were damn sure good enough

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I was not happy with the guard play at the end of the year. Leary in particular I saw starting to get beat increasingly often. I don't know if he was wearing down or what, but I actually don't think he was good at all by the end of the year.

Bernadeau was bland. He wasn't a liability but he wasn't a strength. Both of them would be on my replacement list, is all.

and to your not saying it in this thread, you have intimated it plenty in other threads.

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So what? You can't control what I think.

But in this thread I was neither expressly stating NOR implying that the coaching should be absolved due to poor OL play whatsoever.

However, independently, the guards do not grade out well in my book and I'd replace them. Free too, frankly, as I don't trust him and he seems to have up and down seasons.

It would be nice to get back to talking about the guards without everyone panicking that -- OMG!! IS SMITTY TRYING TO SECRETLY LET GARRETT OFF THE HOOK AGAIN?!!!?!

Relax... it's not even at issue in this thread. We can talk about personnel independent of that.

Too late.

You are a Garrett mark, and you can't get away from it. No matter how hard you try.

Iamtdg said:

Too late.

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It's not too late to replace the guards, we still have the draft in front of us. Zach Martin could be one.

You are a Garrett mark, and you can't get away from it. No matter how hard you try.

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Not trying to get away from it.... just saying it makes no fucking sense to interject it into a discussion where it was not relevant.

Smitty: Man, we could really use some new DTs. If we could hold people a little better, it'd really take some of the pressure off Romo and the offense.

Board: OMG! HE'S SAYING ITS THE DEFENSE'S FAULT THAT GARRETT SUCKS!!!!!!!!! FURIOUS REBUTTAL!!!!!

No, dummies. I'm saying the defense sucks. We can talk about things independently you know. Not every criticism of poor personnel is a Garrett apology, and it wasn't meant to be one here. We just very legitimately don't have a perfect OL, we could use better guard play and also a RT.

Which is why you see everyone saying that Martin would be a good fit, by the way.... he could play guard. If we had stud guards, that wouldn't really be a discussion, now would it?

mschmidt64 said:

I have no interest in having that debate again right now.

C-rock is wrong, however, when he says our guard play was "excellent."

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What evidence do you have that our guards were average to below average? Your keen scouting eye?

Iamtdg said:

You're wrong when you try to say that our coaching (NOT OUR OL) wasn't a HUGE reason why our running game sucked last year. Even though it didn't.

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I certainly remember several on this board at the start of last season who were having falling down fits about the organization not addressing the OL but not many have acknowledged that it was addressed pretty well in a hurry.

Cowboysrock55 said:

What evidence do you have that our guards were average to below average? Your keen scouting eye?

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Unfortunately we don't have the game tape archived, but yeah, Leary was getting pushed back increasingly often and was spending a lot of time on the ground near the end of the season. And Bernadeau is just a guy. Better as a backup utility player.

mschmidt64 said:

Unfortunately we don't have the game tape archived, but yeah, Leary was getting pushed back increasingly often and was spending a lot of time on the ground near the end of the season. And Bernadeau is just a guy. Better as a backup utility player.

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That's odd because Murray had excellent numbers in the Green Bay and Washington games. Pretty difficult to do when your guard is being routinely pushed into the backfield like you suggest. Bernadeau surprised the crap out of most of us, he played way better then he had played previously in his career. Probably had something to do with competent play surrounding him. On top of all that Leary was a young guy starting for the first time in his career. It wouldn't be surprising at all to expect his play to be even better next year.

So like I said, you're bitching about the O-line isn't warranted. The funny thing is I have no problem taking an O-line in the first round of the draft this year. Mostly because our O-line is still paper thin, especially when you consider Leary's knee and Free's history. At worst the first round pick is depth for a year and then becomes a mainstay on the O-line by year two. I'm definitely more concerned about D-line and safety going into next year but that's because we don't have even competent starters at those positions.

Cowboysrock55 said:

So like I said, you're bitching about the O-line isn't warranted. The funny thing is I have no problem taking an O-line in the first round of the draft this year.

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That's all that needs to be said. If we had quality long term starters at those spots, it wouldn't be an issue.

Instead, we are saying a tackle who can play guard would be an instant plug-in upgrade over Bernadeau or Leary.

Why?

Because they are average to below-average players.

Which is all I'm saying. Not that the line sucked. Tyron Smith was dominant and Frederick was pretty good. Free was not bad, though as you said, he can't be trusted.

And that leads us back to what began this dumb discussion... the guards are undertalented and upgradable and we should do that since OL is the most important part of the offense besides QB.

mschmidt64 said:

That's all that needs to be said. If we had quality long term starters at those spots, it wouldn't be an issue.

Instead, we are saying a tackle who can play guard would be an instant plug-in upgrade over Bernadeau or Leary.

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Eh, I'm not so sure Martin is going to be much of an upgrade at guard. If I'm drafting a guy in the first round to play guard I'd rather have someone with more of a proven track record as a stud guard. I think he is going to be a long term starter in the NFL. I just don't know if he is really a guy that's going to be viewed as special ever. When I'm drafting in the first round I like guys that have the potential to be special at their position. I don't see that with Martin.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Eh, I'm not so sure Martin is going to be much of an upgrade at guard. If I'm drafting a guy in the first round to play guard I'd rather have someone with more of a proven track record as a stud guard. I think he is going to be a long term starter in the NFL. I just don't know if he is really a guy that's going to be viewed as special ever. When I'm drafting in the first round I like guys that have the potential to be special at their position. I don't see that with Martin.

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Well, if you are drafting someone in the first round to play guard long term, yeah, you want an actual guard. But Martin would start here at guard and be an upgrade before taking over for Free at RT.

Rewind to 2013...chance warmack or Travis Frederick?

pdom said:

Rewind to 2013...chance warmack or Travis Frederick?

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Not sure, but in a re-draft, Frederick goes higher than 31 for sure.

Cowboys ass-pwned in last year's first round. The inanely stupid media was going ape-shit and no team got better value for their 1 pick than Dallas got with Frederick and Williams.

Then the loser tools (in true loser fashion unsure about themselves after having actually done well) felt they could fuck around and take Gavin Escobar who ended up possibly the worst pick in the 2nd round.

The Cowboys need to go to Gamblers Anonymous. They can't quit when they're ahead, and they're almost never ahead.

pdom said:

Rewind to 2013...chance warmack or Travis Frederick?

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I guess that depends on who you have more confidence in Bernadeau or Costa.

Im happy with Frederick and would probably stick with that choice.

Rev said:

I guess that depends on who you have more confidence in Bernadeau or Costa.

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If the answer to that question is Bernadeau, that doesn't settle the question, since Bernadeau can play C theoretically.

Clay_Allison said:

If the answer to that question is Bernadeau, that doesn't settle the question, since Bernadeau can play C theoretically.

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and Free can play guard as well. Moving is usually never the answer when you are talking about borderline talent.

Rev said:

and Free can play guard as well. Moving is usually never the answer when you are talking about borderline talent.

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Free can't play guard. That was crazy talk. He's too tall and light.

Clay_Allison said:

Free can't play guard. That was crazy talk. He's too tall and light.

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Insert whatever name you like that is playing a position they dont play as well.