Hill: Why not Johnny Manziel to the Cowboys?

jsmith6919 · May 1, 2014

Holmgren: "I think (long-term success) is a long shot. When he makes plays, he's most effective moving, scrambling, gets a little lucky, and then he's got a lot of those throws that most guys can make. When he has to really throw the ball accurately, I just didn't think he threw the ball well enough."

Found this to be so funny coming from a guy who rode Favre to a SB gotta figure JF is a HOF lock now, make it happen Jerry

L.T. Fan · May 1, 2014

jsmith6919 said:
Holmgren: "I think (long-term success) is a long shot. When he makes plays, he's most effective moving, scrambling, gets a little lucky, and then he's got a lot of those throws that most guys can make. When he has to really throw the ball accurately, I just didn't think he threw the ball well enough."

Found this to be so funny coming from a guy who rode Favre to a SB gotta figure JF is a HOF lock now, make it happen Jerry

Yeah. What would Holgrem know about that sort of thing. :rolleyes

ravidubey · May 1, 2014

L.T. Fan said:
Yeah. What would Holgrem know about that sort of thing.

Exactly.

Favre was 6'2" 225 pounds and had a very strong arm that gave him great accuracy and an ability to create plays deep behind the defense or in traffic in the deep middle where others just couldn't. His problem with interceptions came from having too much confidence in his arm as opposed to an inability to actually make throws.

I think Manziel will be the worst of all worlds... both overconfident and also unable to make the throw.

Cowboysrock55 · May 1, 2014

L.T. Fan said:
Yeah. What would Holgrem know about that sort of thing.

I wouldn't exactly give Holmgren any credit when it comes to evaluating and finding QBs. Or Holgrem if that's what you like to call him...

Carp · May 1, 2014

The 2 QBs he had real success with were Favre and Hasselbeck...both were gamblers.

L.T. Fan · May 1, 2014

Cowboysrock55 said:
I wouldn't exactly give Holmgren any credit when it comes to evaluating and finding QBs. Or Holgrem if that's what you like to call him...

I have a dyslexic keyboard. I think he knows enough about QB s to make an above average analysis of a prospect.

L.T. Fan · May 1, 2014

Carp said:
The 2 QBs he had real success with were Favre and Hasselbeck...both were gamblers.

Like Johnny Football? :art

Clay_Allison · May 1, 2014

Carp said:
The 2 QBs he had real success with were Favre and Hasselbeck...both were gamblers.

It's not like Hasselbeck had elite physical tools either.

ravidubey · May 2, 2014

Clay_Allison said:
It's not like Hasselbeck had elite physical tools either.

Hasselbeck is 6'4" 225.

Clay_Allison · May 2, 2014

ravidubey said:
Hasselbeck is 6'4" 225.

But went in the 6th, probably because he was pretty unimpressive athletically.

jsmith6919 · May 2, 2014

L.T. Fan said:
I have a dyslexic keyboard. I think he knows enough about QB s to make an above average analysis of a prospect.

Considering the only qbs he actually drafted are McCoy and Weeden I'd disagree

Cowboysrock55 · May 2, 2014

jsmith6919 said:
Considering the only qbs he actually drafted are McCoy and Weeden I'd disagree

That was exactly my thought. The man can develop a QB as a head coach but I wouldn't trust him to draft my QB at all.

L.T. Fan · May 2, 2014

jsmith6919 said:
Considering the only qbs he actually drafted are McCoy and Weeden I'd disagree

Didn't say anything about drafting. I was making my comments about his ability to observe and analyze a QB. That is what he was doing with Manzeil.

Cowboysrock55 · May 2, 2014

L.T. Fan said:
Didn't say anything about drafting. I was making my comments about his ability to observe and analyze a QB. That is what he was doing with Manzeil.

That's what he did with McCoy and Weeden...

L.T. Fan · May 2, 2014

Cowboysrock55 said:
That's what he did with McCoy and Weeden...

He wasn't alone with his optimism. Both have played in the NFL. Turns out he is not alone in his negative view of Manzeil but when all else fails I guess we will have to wait and see.

ravidubey · May 4, 2014

Cowboysrock55 said:
The man can develop a QB as a head coach but I wouldn't trust him to draft my QB at all.

Bingo. No one has ever been qualified to do both. Jimmy had a stretch where he actually coached and recruited the college players he was scouting in the NFL, but that dried up on him and then he started taking gambles on Daryl Gardener, Yatil green, and John Avery. Parcells, Shanahan... they all ultimately failed at doing both.

boozeman · May 4, 2014

Cowboysrock55 said:
That was exactly my thought. The man can develop a QB as a head coach but I wouldn't trust him to draft my QB at all.

You could say Holmgren didn't "develop" Favre either. It was not exactly a Norv Turner/Troy Aikman type of relationship.

He had big issues with Favre and had to have guys like Gruden and Reid talk him down.

Holmgren absolutely hates Manziel, so it is pretty clear he prefers a Hasselbeck pocket player, go with the assignment type QB. That's probably what drew him to Weeden.

ravidubey · May 4, 2014

boozeman said:
That's probably what drew him to Weeden.

I think looking at himself in the mirror and seeing all white hairs is what drew him to Weeden. Too much pressure to "turn it around" too fast.

Cowboysrock55 · May 4, 2014

ravidubey said:
Bingo. No one has ever been qualified to do both. Jimmy had a stretch where he actually coached and recruited the college players he was scouting in the NFL, but that dried up on him and then he started taking gambles on Daryl Gardener, Yatil green, and John Avery. Parcells, Shanahan... they all ultimately failed at doing both.

Being a GM takes a massive amount of time and dedication. Coaches don't have time to do both things. It's also why someone like Jerry couldn't possibly do it.

boozeman · May 4, 2014

Cowboysrock55 said:
Being a GM takes a massive amount of time and dedication. Coaches don't have time to do both things. It's also why someone like Jerry couldn't possibly do it.

It takes an all-timer to do it. If you have that person trying to do both, they better be a machine. Belichick is the only guy like that. He's actually physically conducting workouts for prospects at this time of year. That is very rare and not many could or would do that.

Hill: Why not Johnny Manziel to the Cowboys?

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