2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Cowboysrock55

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The "free free free" thing is the equivalent of Republicans/Libertarians "hating the poor." Highly reductive.
:lol

In what world is that the same thing. Wanting to offer people free stuff is exactly what Bernie wants to do. No Republican that I'm aware of has wanted to make laws that punish people for being poor.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I will say this. As disastrous as Bernie's economic policies would be for America I'd still take him over Hilary. The Republicans would never let his tax hikes pass anyway and without them he can't afford any of the major policy changes he wants. I kind of like the way Bernie kind of thumbs his nose at the regular established way of doing things. He is like a socialist version of Rand Paul.
 

L.T. Fan

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:lol

In what world is that the same thing. Wanting to offer people free stuff is exactly what Bernie wants to do. No Republican that I'm aware of has wanted to make laws that punish people for being poor.
Yep. I don't know why folks cannot understand that government doesn't have one cent to pay anything. Any money paid out by government has to come out of someone's pocket.
 

Clay_Allison

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:lol

In what world is that the same thing. Wanting to offer people free stuff is exactly what Bernie wants to do. No Republican that I'm aware of has wanted to make laws that punish people for being poor.
The last person I know of who did that was Obama. Can't afford health insurance? Penalty!
 

townsend

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The last person I know of who did that was Obama. Can't afford health insurance? Penalty!
Even though I'm more positive than most about Obama, I think your fooling yourself if you think he wasn't beholden to the corporate powers. TPP and ACA were both love letters to corporate greed.
 

townsend

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:lol

In what world is that the same thing. Wanting to offer people free stuff is exactly what Bernie wants to do. No Republican that I'm aware of has wanted to make laws that punish people for being poor.
By the same token you can absolutely see how Republicans hate the poor. They intentionally hide any form of social assistance behind miles of red tape, they use CPS, truant officers, and good ol' fashion criminal justice rage war on the underprivileged, and if you want to change your station by joining the military, well they would very much like you to die in the desert.
 

NoDak

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By the same token you can absolutely see how Republicans hate the poor. They intentionally hide any form of social assistance behind miles of red tape, they use CPS, truant officers, and good ol' fashion criminal justice rage war on the underprivileged, and if you want to change your station by joining the military, well they would very much like you to die in the desert.
:lol

This is awesome.
 

L.T. Fan

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By the same token you can absolutely see how Republicans hate the poor. They intentionally hide any form of social assistance behind miles of red tape, they use CPS, truant officers, and good ol' fashion criminal justice rage war on the underprivileged, and if you want to change your station by joining the military, well they would very much like you to die in the desert.
Holy cow man. Do you ever hear yourself?
 

townsend

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On dying in the desert:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/feb/04/hillary-clinton/50000-started-war-without-body-armor/

We sent 50,000 soldiers to Iraq without body armor to cut costs. We didn't bother ordering body armor until months after Bush had begged congress for 500 million for a contract to Halliburton to repair oil facilities.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/30/politics/john-mccain-lindsey-graham-isis-syria/

Long tenured Republicans McCain and Lindsey Graham begging to put our soldiers into harms way.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/paris-attacks-jeb-war-graham-warns-9-11-article-1.2435609
“We should declare war and harness all of the power that the United States can bring to bear both diplomatic and military, of course, to be able to take out ISIS,”
-JEB

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politics/republican-isis-2016-election/

The presidential nominees, while varying in approach, still trend towards wanting ground troops against ISIS. (Points for Cruz on this, while being a dummy who still thinks "Carpet Bombing" is a thing he dismissed boots on the ground.)

We're 10,000 troops lighter, Not counting the wounded. Thanks to Republican hawks who were beating the drums 15 years ago, and are still beating the drums. 10,000 dead soldiers. Or as Jeb would call it a "good deal" http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/08/13/jeb-toppling-saddam-was-a-good-deal.html
 

townsend

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"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what, All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what."

-Mitt Romney 2012 Republican nominee
 

Kbrown

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:lol

In what world is that the same thing. Wanting to offer people free stuff is exactly what Bernie wants to do. No Republican that I'm aware of has wanted to make laws that punish people for being poor.
You kind of make my point here. The fact that you can't fathom a reasonable person supporting single-payer health care for any other reason than greed for free stuff, combined with the fact that you can't fathom how the other side could possibly perceive things like deregulation and social program cuts as hatred of the poor, kind of shows why there is no honest debate anymore. "My ideas are self-evidently correct, and I assume the worst about everyone else's intentions."

The left wing does it too. Conservatives are racists, bigots, etc.

FWIW, I will be a Paul voter. I don't think universal healthcare would work on a national level. But it doesn't do anybody any good to dismiss the other side out-of-hand as greedy, or lazy or whatever.
 

townsend

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http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/gov_bobby_jindals_new_food_sta.html

R Bobby Jindhal happily kicking 62,000 people off of foodstamp assistance.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/drug-testing-and-public-assistance.aspx

13 Red states have passed ludicrous drug testing requirements for welfare recipients.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/02/26/3624447/tanf-drug-testing-states/

Despite all available information proving such programs are prohibitively expensive, and almost never exclude recipients. But were passed entirely because Republicans believe that the poor should be treated like criminals, and they're willing to spend more government funds (i.e. be less conservative) to do it.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You kind of make my point here. The fact that you can't fathom a reasonable person supporting single-payer health care for any other reason than greed for free stuff, combined with the fact that you can't fathom how the other side could possibly perceive things like deregulation and social program cuts as hatred of the poor, kind of shows why there is no honest debate anymore. "My ideas are self-evidently correct, and I assume the worst about everyone else's intentions."
It's not self evident. You made a comparison that wasn't accurate and I pointed it out. Not giving someone something free is not hating that person. Hating someone is actively doing something negative to them. No one does that. I would hope you understand the difference? Government not giving a person something for free is not the equivalent of hating that person.

Think of it like this. If I'm walking down the street and there is a poor person sitting on the corner with his cup out. If I don't put money in his cup, that doesn't mean I hate him. On the other hand if I reach in his cup and take the money that he does have, I am showing a hatred for him.
 
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townsend

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On the Criminal justice system

http://www.ontheissues.org/Crime.htm

Here's a rundown of every presidential candidate, even several of the defunct and never was. Once again diverse. But republicans trends heavily towards "tough on crime" which is opposite of their democrat peers.
 

Kbrown

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It's not self evident. You made a comparison that wasn't accurate and I pointed it out. Not giving someone something free is not hating that person. Hating someone is actively doing something negative to them. No one does that. I would hope you understand the difference? Government not giving a person something for free is not the equivalent of hating that person.
And I agree. Good grief, I am not commenting on the issues themselves, just the counter-productive way we discuss things in this country. I don't think conservatives hate the poor, and I don't think Sanders voters are free-loaders. I just think it's silly to think that 49-50% of the nations wants to destroy the environment, or hates the poor, or are freeloaders, or whatever. And I am not trying to single you out. I am guilty of a lack of basic empathy and intellectual laziness myself, pretty often.

Anyway, I have typed a little beyond the actual amount of damns I give. :lol
 

Cowboysrock55

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And I agree. Good grief, I am not commenting on the issues themselves, just the counter-productive way we discuss things in this country. I don't think conservatives hate the poor, and I don't think Sanders voters are free-loaders. I just think it's silly to think that 49-50% of the nations wants to destroy the environment, or hates the poor, or are freeloaders, or whatever. And I am not trying to single you out. I am guilty of a lack of basic empathy and intellectual laziness myself, pretty often.
But that is the biggest part of Berrnie's platform. The core of what he stands for is wealth redistribution. Hell Bernie himself brags about the social class of the majority of his supporters.
 
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