Government and taxation

Chocolate Lab · Jan 8, 2015

This thread explains bipo's attitude about, well, everything.

Cotton · Jan 8, 2015

Chocolate Lab said:
This thread explains bipo's attitude about, well, everything.

I know it may be hard to imagine, but he used to be much worse.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 8, 2015

I don't know how much other people see this but Social Security Disability drives me nuts. As a criminal defense attorney you wouldn't believe the number of potential clients who come into my office who are perfectly healthy enough to work but must wait until their SSD check comes in at the beginning of the month to try and hire me. These same people don't work because then they wouldn't receive the disability check any longer or instead work for cash under the table so that they don't have to report it.

I'm sure some official statistic will say the number of people like this is tiny but I don't buy it for a second. I have seen way too much of it first hand.

Cotton · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I don't know how much other people see this but Social Security Disability drives me nuts. As a criminal defense attorney you wouldn't believe the number of potential clients who come into my office who are perfectly healthy enough to work but must wait until their SSD check comes in at the beginning of the month to try and hire me. These same people don't work because then they wouldn't receive the disability check any longer or instead work for cash under the table so that they don't have to report it.

I'm sure some official statistic will say the number of people like this is tiny but I don't buy it for a second. I have seen way too much of it first hand.

What's funny about SSD to me is the inconsistency. My daughter who has Downs was given SSD when she was about a year old. When she turned 3 they took it away. It was like they were saying "meh, she's not as disabled now". It was the weirdest thing I think I have ever seen. :lol

Clay_Allison · Jan 8, 2015

skidadl said:
Why couldn't a guy in your position buy a decent house for 100-120k? A modest house is awesome to own. Especially when you are married with no kids.

My wife moved out of her parents house into mine so everything's been in my name, so we're being told it doesn't matter how much money she's making or how long she's had her job because she doesn't have any credit. I don't have much credit either because I don't like going into debt. The only thing I've ever owed money for is my student loans.

Clay_Allison · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I don't know how much other people see this but Social Security Disability drives me nuts. As a criminal defense attorney you wouldn't believe the number of potential clients who come into my office who are perfectly healthy enough to work but must wait until their SSD check comes in at the beginning of the month to try and hire me. These same people don't work because then they wouldn't receive the disability check any longer or instead work for cash under the table so that they don't have to report it.

I'm sure some official statistic will say the number of people like this is tiny but I don't buy it for a second. I have seen way too much of it first hand.

Imagine how many you would see if you were a social security lawyer.

Kbrown · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I don't know how much other people see this but Social Security Disability drives me nuts. As a criminal defense attorney you wouldn't believe the number of potential clients who come into my office who are perfectly healthy enough to work but must wait until their SSD check comes in at the beginning of the month to try and hire me. These same people don't work because then they wouldn't receive the disability check any longer or instead work for cash under the table so that they don't have to report it.

I'm sure some official statistic will say the number of people like this is tiny but I don't buy it for a second. I have seen way too much of it first hand.

I used to work intake at a housing authority, and the number of people receiving SSD with no discernible disability was always striking. Working there, I also got to see how the system can encourage dependency, as the income limits often encouraged people to quit a job just for the sake of coming in under the limit.

To the bigger point, I do think it's reductive to paint everything as producers v. moochers. Wealth disparity is a huge problem. When a miniscule percentage of citizens have been able to help buy elections, influence policy, and create a network cronyism for themselves, it's a problem. And I don't think saying so is anti-conservative.

L.T. Fan · Jan 8, 2015

Clay_Allison said:
My wife moved out of her parents house into mine so everything's been in my name, so we're being told it doesn't matter how much money she's making or how long she's had her job because she doesn't have any credit. I don't have much credit either because I don't like going into debt. The only thing I've ever owed money for is my student loans.

I am sure alll of us had to take out amortage to buy a house at one time. If you want to own a house thats what you will have to do as well.

L.T. Fan · Jan 8, 2015

All of you are now along side of me as being ignorant per Jiggy.

Jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2015

L.T. Fan said:
All of you are now along side of me as being ignorant per Jiggy.

somebody got their feelings hurt.

And no all of them are not saying more people are living off the government than being productive, it was a ignorant statement and your links proved that.

You can be receiving assistance and still be productive this idea that more Americans are at home collecting a check than working is ludicrous.

I agree there are a lot of people taking the easy way out and scamming the system but I disagree it's as high as some are making it out to be.

Jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2015

I will say this out of respect L.T. maybe ignorant was a bit harsh but the statement was way out there.

L.T. Fan · Jan 8, 2015

Jiggyfly said:
somebody got their feelings hurt.

And no all of them are not saying more people are living off the government than being productive, it was a ignorant statement and your links proved that.

You can be receiving assistance and still be productive this idea that more Americans are at home collecting a check than working is ludicrous.

I agree there are a lot of people taking the easy way out and scamming the system but I disagree it's as high as some are making it out to be.

You threw out the statement and everyone came forward to add their opinions, the sources ( there were sveral links) suported what i said so live with your statement. You earned it and no my feelings arent hurt i am just pointing out you jumped the gun with your label.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 8, 2015

L.T. Fan said:
I am sure alll of us had to take out amortage to buy a house at one time. If you want to own a house thats what you will have to do as well.

I think his point is that he isn't able to get a housing loan do to credit.

Housing loans are actually becoming much more difficult to get. I had a lot of trouble purchasing my house even though I have a great income. My problem was that I had quit my job working for another lawyer and instead now run my own law firm. Banks basically refuse to loan to business owners unless you have been running the business for years successfully. Eventually I was able to get a loan but it was a huge pain and really a joke considering the monthly profits I was showing as a business.

L.T. Fan · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I think his point is that he isn't able to get a housing loan do to credit.

Housing loans are actually becoming much more difficult to get. I had a lot of trouble purchasing my house even though I have a great income. My problem was that I had quit my job working for another lawyer and instead now run my own law firm. Banks basically refuse to loan to business owners unless you have been running the business for years successfully. Eventually I was able to get a loan but it was a huge pain and really a joke considering the monthly profits I was showing as a business.

Yes sir i used to be a banker and understand the qualifications. Admittedly it has been a few years since i was in the business but not having a lot of credit will not disqualify anyone in itself. If the income is sufficient and the equity position is within limits generally it is a go. In your personal situation i would say that your business had not been established long enough to actually produce a qualifying P and L history.

E_D_Guapo · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I think his point is that he isn't able to get a housing loan do to credit.

Housing loans are actually becoming much more difficult to get. I had a lot of trouble purchasing my house even though I have a great income. My problem was that I had quit my job working for another lawyer and instead now run my own law firm. Banks basically refuse to loan to business owners unless you have been running the business for years successfully. Eventually I was able to get a loan but it was a huge pain and really a joke considering the monthly profits I was showing as a business.

I bought my house in the spring of 2001 (well, took out a home mortgage loan). It was obviously a huge process with tons of shit involved to get through all the paperwork, proof of employment/income, credit checks, etc, etc, to get approved, but it wasn't too bad overall. It was to be expected and the process didn't seem excessive considering it was my first home loan. I refinanced in I think 2004 because the interest rates dropped a couple points from my original rate. Pretty smooth, easy process for that. Rates fell again in 2013 to the point that refinancing again was well worth it.

That second refinancing was unbelievably irritating. I felt like I was getting a prostate exam or something. It blows my mind because I had been paying on the loan for 12 years without a single late payment, my credit is good, etc., but they were basically treating me as if I had no history at all. It was as if I was applying for my first home loan all over again except with more paperwork and more things required by the mortgage company. To say that they wanted to make sure all their i's were dotted and t's were crossed would be a massive understatement. It was definitely a more intense process than the original application for a home loan.

Jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2015

L.T. Fan said:
You threw out the statement and everyone came forward to add their opinions, the sources ( there were sveral links) suported what i said so live with your statement. You earned it and no my feelings arent hurt i am just pointing out you jumped the gun with your label.

How did I jump the gun none of those links and only one other person came close to saying there are more people living off the government than being productive, is that not what you said?

Kbrown · Jan 8, 2015

Cowboysrock55 said:
I think his point is that he isn't able to get a housing loan do to credit.

Housing loans are actually becoming much more difficult to get. I had a lot of trouble purchasing my house even though I have a great income. My problem was that I had quit my job working for another lawyer and instead now run my own law firm. Banks basically refuse to loan to business owners unless you have been running the business for years successfully. Eventually I was able to get a loan but it was a huge pain and really a joke considering the monthly profits I was showing as a business.

Due to

L.T. Fan · Jan 8, 2015

Jiggyfly said:
How did I jump the gun none of those links and only one other person came close to saying there are more people living off the government than being productive, is that not what you said?

You seem to think that recieving assistance and still making.an income somewhere else equates to being productive. That isnt the case. If you have to take from the government to live then all positive effects of being a productivre menmber is negated. You are not producing you are being subsidized. A subsidized entity is not productive by definition.

Jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2015

And here are the actual numbers LT.

--Last year, about 29 percent of households received Medicare benefits and 31.6 percent received Social Security. (Obviously there's a lot of overlap between those two, since those programs mainly benefit retirees.)

--Meanwhile, about 32 million households, or 27.1 percent, benefited from at least one means-tested poverty program. The biggest benefits here were Medicaid (19.5 percent), food stamps (12.7 percent) and subsidized lunches (11.2 percent). Again, there's some overlap.

--Smaller benefits include public housing (5 percent of households), unemployment (4 percent), and veterans' compensation (2.6 percent). Only 7 percent of households receive some sort of direct cash assistance, such as the TANF welfare program

.
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For now, 58.7 per cent of American adults are working if the actual employment-population ratio is taken into consideration, leaving about 82 million, or almost 41 per cent of people unemployed. Only 8 per cent, however, are even interested in work, leaving 33 per cent of Americans not only jobless — but with no desire for work.

And these are from your links.

And everybody who is not working is not living off the government so I say this debate is over.

Jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2015

L.T. Fan said:
Yoj seem to think that recieving assistance and still making.an income somewhere else equates to being productive. That isnt the case. If you have to take from the government to live then all positive effects of toward being a productivre menmber is negated. You are not producing you are being subsidized. A subsidized entity is not productive by defination.[/QUOTE]

So the oil industry is not productive?

Over the past century, the federal government has pumped more than $470 billion into the oil and gas industry in the form of generous, never-expiring tax breaks. Once intended to jump-start struggling domestic drillers, these incentives have become a tidy bonus for some of the world's most profitable companies.

Taxpayers currently subsidize the oil industry by as much as $4.8 billion a year, with about half of that going to the big five oil companies—ExxonMobil, Shell, Chevron, BP, and ConocoPhillips—which get an average tax break of $3.34 on every barrel of domestic crude they produce. With Washington looking under the couch cushions for sources of new revenue, oil prices topping $100 a barrel, and the world feeling the heat from its dependence on fossil fuels, there's been a renewed push to close these decades-old loopholes. But history suggests that Big Oil won't let go of its perks without a brawl

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.

Or Boeing.

The Boeing Co. was the beneficiary of a deal to end all deals this past weekend, when the Washington Legislature voted to extend $8.7 billion in tax breaks to the aircraft manufacturer stretching out 27 years until 2040. Gov. Jay Inslee signed the tax breaks into law Monday at the Museum of Flight.

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Government and taxation

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