Thursday Night Chatter - Week 16 | Giants at Eagles | 12/22/2016

Status
Not open for further replies.

Texas Ace

Teh Acester
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
23,401
What is it about great WRs having a higher % chance of being a cunt?
It's not even about being a diva, though.

Beckham has some legitimate mental/emotional issues.

It's not normal to act and react the way that he does.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,465
88 offensive plays... not a formula for success unless you are way ahead.
The amount they threw the ball was dumb. They actually ran it pretty well at times against the Eagles. 25 carries for 114 yards and 4.6 yards per carry is pretty good. No reason to be chucking the ball 63 times along with that. And if you want to talk about dink and dunk, how about averaging 5.7 yards per pass attempt.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
The amount they threw the ball was dumb. They actually ran it pretty well at times against the Eagles. 25 carries for 114 yards and 4.6 yards per carry is pretty good. No reason to be chucking the ball 63 times along with that. And if you want to talk about dink and dunk, how about averaging 5.7 yards per pass attempt.
It was pathetic. You can't win that way unless you are perfectly accurate.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
Starting at our own 20, what is the target number of plays?
If you're serious, then obviously it depends on the situation. Each drive is different, but no way I plan for 13 plays each time.

Maybe to start the game, (re)establish control, or finish the game. But not every time.

Just watch the 2007 playoff game if you want a bitter reminder of how well that strategy plays. They rammed Barber down the Giants throats on two long TD drives, burned most of the first half and had a 14-14 tie to show for it.

They lost momentum, tried to get it back, and multiple penalties and drops lost the game.
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
If you're serious, then obviously it depends on the situation. Each drive is different, but no way I plan for 13 plays each time.

Maybe to start the game, (re)establish control, or finish the game. But not every time.

Just watch the 2007 playoff game if you want a bitter reminder of how well that strategy plays. They rammed Barber down the Giants throats on two long TD drives, burned most of the first half and had a 14-14 tie to show for it.

They lost momentum, tried to get it back, and multiple penalties and drops lost the game.
So Romo as starter doesn't automatically have this magical downfield passing game?
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
Cowboys rank #4 in most yards per play behind Falcons, Saints and Redskins. We're #4 in yards per pass attempt behind the Falcons, Patriots and Redskins.

These downfield passing teams that we aspire to be, suffer from more negative plays to counterbalance a deep positive play.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
These downfield passing teams that we aspire to be, suffer from more negative plays to counterbalance a deep positive play.
So do we and even more so lately. We are turning the ball over more, are still racking up 3rd most NFL offensive holding calls, and aren't scoring touchdowns as often. With Bailey's bad back we aren't automatic on deep FG's either.

Without the half a dozen turnovers gained by the defense the last two games it could be much worse. We'd have probably lost vs Tampa.

So yeah, lack of any big play ability ranks third on my list of concerns behind DT and pass-rush.

Yards per pass is normally a decent stat, but our case it is as misleading as a team that throws 4/20 for 400 yards, only the opposite. The ideal mix lies in between.
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
So do we and even more so lately. We are turning the ball over more, are still racking up 3rd most NFL offensive holding calls, and aren't scoring touchdowns as often. With Bailey's bad back we aren't automatic on deep FG's either.

Without the half a dozen turnovers gained by the defense the last two games it could be much worse. We'd have probably lost vs Tampa.

So yeah, lack of any big play ability ranks third on my list of concerns behind DT and pass-rush.

Yards per pass is normally a decent stat, but our case it is as misleading as a team that throws 4/20 for 400 yards, only the opposite. The ideal mix lies in between.
So, the offense as is...are we royally fucked, semi-fucked, or good-could-be-better-shape?
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
Yards per pass is normally a decent stat, but our case it is as misleading as a team that throws 4/20 for 400 yards, only the opposite. The ideal mix lies in between.
Our passing attack is as extreme as 4/20 for 400 yards, only the opposite? :lol

Dak is #5 in air yards thrown per attempt (minus YAC/RAC), behind Matt Ryan, Cousins, Mariota. However, Dak is ~#24 lowest in YAC % of Total Yards, meaning he gets low YAC.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
So, the offense as is...are we royally fucked, semi-fucked, or good-could-be-better-shape?
You know we're not fucked in any capacity. It's the latter.

Our passing attack is as extreme as 4/20 for 400 yards, only the opposite?

Dak is #5 in air yards thrown per attempt (minus YAC/RAC), behind Matt Ryan, Cousins, Mariota. However, Dak is ~#24 lowest in YAC % of Total Yards, meaning he gets low YAC.
We've seen these exact stats and have discussed them repeatedly.

It's not that the passing attack isn't efficient, it is. Highly so.

It's not explosive.

You want a 15 yard play? Linehan and Dak are the best in the league at it.

You want the occasional 25+ yard play that sets the defense on its heels and gets you in sure scoring position? Try another offense. We're 25th in the league in this category.
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
We've seen these exact stats and have discussed them repeatedly.

It's not that the passing attack isn't efficient, it is. Highly so.

It's not explosive.

You want a 15 yard play? Linehan and Dak are the best in the league at it.

You want the occasional 25+ yard play that sets the defense on its heels and gets you in sure scoring position? Try another offense. We're 25th in the league in this category.
We're the #3 highest team for points-per-drive behind Falcons and Saints. #6 highest for points-per-play.

What level of increase in +25 yard plays would would make you happy - one or two per game? Probably not. So what are you recommending to achieve this shangri-la?

For a lower percentage play with the deep pass, you also run the risk of an incompletion leading to a longer distance 3rd down.

Is increasing our 25+ yard passes frequency worth it when we're already Top 10 in all the stats shown above?
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
We're the #3 highest team for points-per-drive behind Falcons and Saints. #6 highest for points-per-play.

What level of increase in +25 yard plays would would make you happy - one or two per game? Probably not. So what are you recommending to achieve this shangri-la?

For a lower percentage play with the deep pass, you also run the risk of an incompletion leading to a longer distance 3rd down.

Is increasing our 25+ yard passes frequency worth it when we're already Top 10 in all the stats shown above?
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
We're the #3 highest team for points-per-drive behind Falcons and Saints. #6 highest for points-per-play.

What level of increase in +25 yard plays would would make you happy - one or two per game? Probably not. So what are you recommending to achieve this shangri-la?
At this point I'd be fine with even a couple from the passing game. Our stats & efficiency is averaged over the whole season, and all that matters is how we're doing right now. Over the last month, I doubt those numbers still hold.

Is increasing our 25+ yard passes frequency worth it when we're already Top 10 in all the stats shown above?
Absolutely. I honestly could care less about stats from the first 10 weeks.

Even Bill Parcells managed to set up a couple of shots downfield. We don't need a bunch of useless keep-D-honest bomb attempts, either. I want to see us open up the field and hit those deep crosses and skinny posts. Dak is accurate, so let's see that accuracy put to greater use.

Looking back, we had some big pass plays on the road at Pittsburgh and Green Bay that changed the complexions of those games. What happened to that boldness?

Offense nursing a lead late in the game, the opposing D is fired up and stuffing the run-- are we going to hit the Alvin Harper skinny post strike that seals the game?
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
Our passer rating is 82.8 in December and YPA is down to 6.4. Also 9 sacks allowed in December so far with one game to go-- more than November and September combined.

Symptomatic of the team wearing down, except Zeke of course and maybe Fred and Zach.
 

data

Forbes #1
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
50,293
Offense nursing a lead late in the game, the opposing D is fired up and stuffing the run-- are we going to hit the Alvin Harper skinny post strike that seals the game?
Thought you were talking about 25+ yard passes? Both 92 & 93 passes to Alvin Harper were like 15 yards. Harper ran the rest.

In any case, if you didn't care about what happened to this offense 10 weeks ago, why would you care about a play that happened 20 years ago? Just as easily, I can bring up The Emmitt drive in 93 SB. Are you upset that we chose to run the league's leading rusher 7/8 plays on that game-sealing drive?

You're against the 13-play, 80-yard drive. Then Zeke was a wasted pick as Morris/McFadden are good enough and we should've traded down and drafted another WR. Cuz this 25+ yard offense can't succeed on a diet of throws to Brice Butler and Terrance Williams.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,162
Thought you were talking about 25+ yard passes? Both 92 & 93 passes to Alvin Harper were like 15 yards. Harper ran the rest.
All that matters is you can create pass plays that go for big yardage. I don't care how far in the air the ball travels. Ideally you want a ball 15-20 yards in the air with the WR thrown open into a running lane.

In any case, if you didn't care about what happened to this offense 10 weeks ago, why would you care about a play that happened 20 years ago?
Because that play was what it took to break the 49ers and get us to the Superbowl. They were stuffing our 4 minute offense. Great offenses, and that's what our team was built to become, can beat you in the air or on the ground quickly or methodically.

Our averages over over the first 10 weeks of football are irrelevant to predicting our ability to make big plays down the stretch-- especially when the passing game has struggled in December.

Just as easily, I can bring up The Emmitt drive in 93 SB. Are you upset that we chose to run the league's leading rusher 7/8 plays on that game-sealing drive?
We know this capability is in our arsenal.

You're against the 13-play, 80-yard drive.
?? No one is totally against these, they just shouldn't be our goal every drive. At some point you are keeping the ball away from yourself, too. The more time you burn on a drive, the less time you yourself have in future drives to score.

Then Zeke was a wasted pick as Morris/McFadden are good enough and we should've traded down and drafted another WR. Cuz this 25+ yard offense can't succeed on a diet of throws to Brice Butler and Terrance Williams.
Butler and Beasley are good enough role players to support our high round talent in Bryant and Williams. We know they can catch deep passes in big games and in the playoffs. We've seen it.

If you have deep shots in your arsenal, it becomes harder to go 8-in the box on Zeke. If the biggest play you've got goes 23 yards, why would any defense back out of the box?
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,726
Phil bringing it strong to the hoop in this thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom