Archer: Finding a Brandon Carr solution for the Cowboys

UncleMilti

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If we are talking about the Sterling Moores of the world, I don't agree at all.

And I like Moore. But Carr is better than that.
I don't think Carr played much better than Moore when you look at the whole body of work.

In the end you look at the money and the performance...again I just don't think he's very good.
 

ravidubey

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Carr and Claiborne can still play... just not as well as they thought when they got both back in 2012.
 

UncleMilti

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Carr and Claiborne can still play... just not as well as they thought when they got both back in 2012.
Sterling Moore: 13 passes defended, 35 tackles, and a forced fumble.

Brandon Carr: 8 passes defended, 46 tackles..no int's, no forced fumbles.....and was Megatrons bitch on National TV.
 

ravidubey

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Sterling Moore: 13 passes defended, 35 tackles, and a forced fumble.

Brandon Carr: 8 passes defended, 46 tackles..no int's, no forced fumbles.....and was Megatrons bitch on National TV.
So they both suck.

Seriously though it's hard to compare when they play two different positions against different competition overall.

And a lot of CB's have been Megatron's bitch over the years.
 

UncleMilti

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So they both suck.

Seriously though it's hard to compare when they play two different positions against different competition overall.

And a lot of CB's have been Megatron's bitch over the years.
I'm not arguing your point...just pointing out you can live with shitty performance numbers from a guy like Sterling Moore, but still get some use out of him and not complain because of the cost.

Carr by the numbers isn't much better, but costs a helluva lot more.

Now, cut Carr down to an incentive laden contract and I'll shut up. But no way is the guy even remotely earning his money.
 

GForce78NJ

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lets not get ahead of ourselves. Sterling Moore was a very serviceable nickle/dime corner. If he was put on the same corners Brandon Carr was facing, we would have laughed him out of town. Brandon Carr is still a decent corner, just no longer should be a #1 or paid #1 money
 

UncleMilti

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lets not get ahead of ourselves. Sterling Moore was a very serviceable nickle/dime corner. If he was put on the same corners Brandon Carr was facing, we would have laughed him out of town. Brandon Carr is still a decent corner, just no longer should be a #1 or paid #1 money
I would say yes, Moore would lose a fair share of outside matches, as he better suited for the nickel role...but lets not act like Carr doesn't have a ton of WTF's against no name WR's out there, either.

Although, I applaud Carr for pocketing huge money for exactly 6 INTs in 3 years with the Cowboys.
 

GForce78NJ

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I would say yes, Moore would lose a fair share of outside matches, as he better suited for the nickel role...but lets not act like Carr doesn't have a ton of WTF's against no name WR's out there, either.

Although, I applaud Carr for pocketing huge money for exactly 6 INTs in 3 years with the Cowboys.
i hate brandon carr. I was just trying to make a point that carr is better than sterling moore. Still wanted to keep Moore but if we cut carr and kept him, then didnt draft a CB - We would be right back to the worst secondary in football.
 

Smitty

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Yeah, you can't compare Carr and Moore by numbers.

Carr has had some bad moments for sure, but if you are saying it's all on him, that is incorrect. The majority of the DB's struggles are directly related to our DL's struggles. Put Carr in New England and people will be saying how amazing it is that Belichick resurrected another player's career.

Scandrick is definitely the best corner on the team and no corner who is outside the Deion Sander/Darrelle Revis impact zone is ever worth the contract we gave to what was essentially a #2 corner in Carr.... but he's still capable of being that player now that our DL is upgraded IMO (a #2 corner, I mean).

And thus, since we will see improvements from Carr and hopefully Claiborne as well, which would make our depth chart at CB....

1. Scandrick
2. Carr
3. Claiborne
4. Patmon
5. White

.... I still really want Byron Jones as that center fielder FS. Or at least try him there. If he can't hack it then move him back to CB, but given our depth at CB, our lack of depth at FS, and the overall dearth of true center fielder FS's in the league, if he can play that role, he's definitely most valuable there as opposed to another "solid" starting CB.
 

UncleMilti

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Yeah, you can't compare Carr and Moore by numbers.

Carr has had some bad moments for sure, but if you are saying it's all on him, that is incorrect. The majority of the DB's struggles are directly related to our DL's struggles. Put Carr in New England and people will be saying how amazing it is that Belichick resurrected another player's career.

Scandrick is definitely the best corner on the team and no corner who is outside the Deion Sander/Darrelle Revis impact zone is ever worth the contract we gave to what was essentially a #2 corner in Carr.... but he's still capable of being that player now that our DL is upgraded IMO (a #2 corner, I mean).

And thus, since we will see improvements from Carr and hopefully Claiborne as well, which would make our depth chart at CB....

1. Scandrick
2. Carr
3. Claiborne
4. Patmon
5. White

.... I still really want Byron Jones as that center fielder FS. Or at least try him there. If he can't hack it then move him back to CB, but given our depth at CB, our lack of depth at FS, and the overall dearth of true center fielder FS's in the league, if he can play that role, he's definitely most valuable there as opposed to another "solid" starting CB.
Definitely agree that a DL push would make Carr a better CB. I'm still in the "what if" mode when thinking about that game at GB. What if Murray hadn't fumbled? What if we had someone like a Hardy that could have knocked the shit out that fag Rogers instead of letting him sit back and pick the secondary apart? What if there had been another solid CB back there with Carr (who still gave up a few big plays, BTW).....ugh.

Pay Carr as a #2 and I can handle the guy being on the team. Hopefully that pans out.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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Yeah, you can't compare Carr and Moore by numbers.

Carr has had some bad moments for sure, but if you are saying it's all on him, that is incorrect. The majority of the DB's struggles are directly related to our DL's struggles. Put Carr in New England and people will be saying how amazing it is that Belichick resurrected another player's career.
You bring up New England as though they have a really talented pass rush. They don't really though. As a team they had a lot of sacks but they are a team that does a great job of scheming. Rob Ninkovich led their team last year with 8 sacks. At the age of 31 that tied a career best for him. I don't think anybody is facing the Patriots and fearing the hellacious pass rush of Rob Ninkovich. The Patriots do not have a great defensive line. Their defense works because of great scheming.

It will be really interesting to see how the Patriots do this year. They had a lot of talent at corner last year and have basically no talent at corner. If their defense falls into the lower half of the NFL next year it won't look very good for your corners don't matter arguments.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Definitely agree that a DL push would make Carr a better CB. I'm still in the "what if" mode when thinking about that game at GB. What if Murray hadn't fumbled? What if we had someone like a Hardy that could have knocked the shit out that fag Rogers instead of letting him sit back and pick the secondary apart? What if there had been another solid CB back there with Carr (who still gave up a few big plays, BTW).....ugh.

Pay Carr as a #2 and I can handle the guy being on the team. Hopefully that pans out.
What if Dez had just gone to the ground instead of trying to make the extra effort to reach out for a TD. Sad thing is I would have preferred him to come up short so we could run some time off the clock.
 

Jiggyfly

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I'm not arguing your point...just pointing out you can live with shitty performance numbers from a guy like Sterling Moore, but still get some use out of him and not complain because of the cost.

Carr by the numbers isn't much better, but costs a helluva lot more.

Now, cut Carr down to an incentive laden contract and I'll shut up. But no way is the guy even remotely earning his money.
Numbers for CB's is a useless stat anybody watching could tell Moore was not asked to do as much as Carr.

I don't understand the why the cost is the most important thing for some why save money you don't meet and weaken your team, if you think anybody off the street can do the same thats very foolish thinking.
 

hstour

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Yeah, you can't compare Carr and Moore by numbers.

.... I still really want Byron Jones as that center fielder FS. Or at least try him there. If he can't hack it then move him back to CB, but given our depth at CB, our lack of depth at FS, and the overall dearth of true center fielder FS's in the league, if he can play that role, he's definitely most valuable there as opposed to another "solid" starting CB.
That's fantasy football, the NFL is not Madden.

Hey Byron; while you are overall adjusting to the tremendous speed change from college to the NFL, trying to learn all the defensive language, the defensive schemes, the defensive calls, looks, coverages and responsibilities; change to playing FS. If you can't "hack" it there, you'll have to move back to CB and relearn almost all of your responsibilities....oh and be ready for the opener on Sept 13.

That's just asking for a rookie to have a bad first year.

Look to the pay cut the Raven's got Ladarius Webb to take ($8M to $5.25M) as the blueprint for how to fix Carr's contract.
 

boozeman

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Look to the pay cut the Raven's got Ladarius Webb to take ($8M to $5.25M) as the blueprint for how to fix Carr's contract.
If you are going to steal that from a Joel Corry tweet, at least give the guy credit.
 

Smitty

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Except Byron Jones has played FS before so he's facing a similar adjustment at either position.
 

boozeman

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Except Byron Jones has played FS before so he's facing a similar adjustment at either position.
Then decide now. Don't have him start at CB then screw him up. Make a choice and stick with it. Yank him around, you are probably going to have a player who is not ready to start at either spot in 2016.
 

hstour

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If you are going to steal that from a Joel Corry tweet, at least give the guy credit.
Yes I got the idea from a Joel Corry Tweet earlier today. So I went and looked it up on Spotrac. Looked like it made sense and was something that you might get Carr to agree to (unlike the Free 50% pay cut which I believe has NO shot in the Carr camp) so I used the example here.

Just trying to engage discussion. Maybe I don't use the terms "disgusting" and "delusional" with no data to support the moniker enough for you.
 
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