Draft Chatter Thread...

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VA Cowboy

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Rankings are just someone's opinion. It may have merit but there is also such a thing as need to be considered. The BPA philosophy ignores the situation that a certain position need to be filled with the BPA for that position. When a team is in that state then to me it is valid to consider the need of the team above ranking players that may be available.
I've always favored a modified BPA approach. Identify the top 4-5 needs and then select BPA from among that group. Most times you'd still end up with the true BPA. At the least you'd only reach 1-3 spots. Plus majority of the time there are 3-4 players with similar ratings, not a clearcut BPA when you're on the clock. And yes, QB is a special situation. Still don't like to reach if we clearly have quite a few other players rated much higher. But if there is just marginal differences in ratings then yes, take QB.




Because QBs are just that much more important then any other position. Its not like the QB who is 15th-20th on your board is going to actually last anywhere close to 15th or 20th. So that means if you want the guy you have to take them high.

Any other position is different. But in the NFL teams live and die by the QB and the good ones are rare. It's simple supply and demand.

Maybe it will make you feel better when Kipers final rankings have Wentz in the top 5 to 10. I honestly could care less. Position importance doesn't get taken into account when scouts are grading these players.

No doubt QB is a rare situation. I guess if we pick 4 and the best QB is 18th on our board, then we have to weigh whether QB is that much of a need to bypass 14-15 higher rated players at other positions. It also really depends on how much higher we have other players rated. This year it doesn't look like any clearcut can't miss prospects at #4 so it may be worth taking a QB rather than a slightly higher rated player at another position.

It is a tough call because Wentz/Lynch may be mid first round talent, but obviously won't be available in the 2nd. Trading down could get us the player we want and more value with additional picks, but could also be risky and we miss out on the QB we want by trading down.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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No doubt QB is a rare situation. I guess if we pick 4 and the best QB is 18th on our board, then we have to weigh whether QB is that much of a need to bypass 14-15 higher rated players at other positions. It also really depends on how much higher we have other players rated. This year it doesn't look like any clearcut can't miss prospects at #4 so it may be worth taking a QB rather than a slightly higher rated player at another position.

It is a tough call because Wentz/Lynch may be mid first round talent, but obviously won't be available in the 2nd. Trading down could get us the player we want and more value with additional picks, but could also be risky and we miss out on the QB we want by trading down.
A lot of it has to do with the actual grades too. Just because a guy is 18 on your board and a guy is 5 doesn't mean there is much difference. If one is a 9.7 on your scale and the other is a 9.6 (Not talking about actual numbers, just a hypothetical) but then there isn't really much difference between those players. Just means there is a lot of talent of a similar caliber in this draft. Which I think is pretty accurate in this draft.
 

fortsbest

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In addition, bu the rime the draft gets closer Wentz won't be the 18th rated player on his board either. Listening to the one of the guys on 105.3 that does scouting with Broadus, he raved about Wentz's practice and what he is doing. His game film looks good and he has the prototypical body. He'll be a top 10 on Mel's board before its all said and done. Which is silly really.
 

VA Cowboy

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Most mocks have all three at least going in the top 15. But some still have Wentz going in the late first. At least there is a lot of time between now and the draft to let things sort itself out.

In the end there could be two worth taking that high and we get one. But if only one stands out and goes to the Browns then I at least hope we get someone like Bosa or Jack and not one of the DB's. But as long as the three QB's all consistently rate in the top 10-15 I'd be willing to take one at #4 since no player at another position is really standing out.
Also, if we pass on QB in the first I'd hate to then have us take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd because I think it'd be a wasted early pick. I don't see Cook, Prescott, Cardale, etc panning out as a top tier QB and there are far better players to be had at the top of the 2nd and 3rd. If we pass on QB in the first I'd prefer to either wait til the 4th or 5th or even til next year. Odds are a 4th/5th rounder like Hogan wouldn't develop into a top tier QB, but at least taking him then would be worth it and minimize the risk and he could have a chance to develop or at least be a solid young backup.
 
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VA Cowboy

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There is a big drop off from the top 3 this year to the next tier. So if we skip a QB in round 1 it may be better to just wait til next year, even if we take a guy on day 3.

Looking at the top prospects for '17, Kaaya of Miami is projected in the top 5. DeShaun Watkins has been consistently projected in the first round and as high as the top 5. After that is Chad Kelly of Ole Miss, Jim Kelly's nephew. He's one I'd really have my eye on. Of course so much can change not just between now and '17 but even between now and the next 3 months. As late as early in this past season Connor Cook was still the top rated QB in '16.

But for the sake of looking ahead there should be some nice options next year, even if we get back on track and draft late in the first round. All I know is we really need to select of future QB in either '16 or '17.
 

Smitty

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The name Phillip Rivers should be ending this discussion. 2nd-3rd rounder whose stock shot up based on the Senior Bowl and he ended up getting selected...ehmmmm..... Fourth overall.
 

Jiggyfly

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The name Phillip Rivers should be ending this discussion. 2nd-3rd rounder whose stock shot up based on the Senior Bowl and he ended up getting selected...ehmmmm..... Fourth overall.
So 1 guy should make everyone forget about all of the other guys who did the same and ended up busting?

And Rivers was getting 1st round discussion before the Senior Bowl.
 

Smitty

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It shouldn't "make everyone forget" but it should prove that it can happen... It invalidates the argument that he would only be drafted on hype and that he wouldn't merit selection. Rivers was every bit worthy of a top 5 selection when he was picked whereas guys like Christian Ponder never were seen with stock that high and were obvious reaches.

Im saying the Rivers example proves there is a difference in the scenarios and Wentz definitely looks like the Rivers scenario more than the Ponder scenario.

Also.... Rivers was not getting more first round hype than Wentz has, pre senior bowl.
 

Jiggyfly

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It shouldn't "make everyone forget" but it should prove that it can happen... It invalidates the argument that he would only be drafted on hype and that he wouldn't merit selection. Rivers was every bit worthy of a top 5 selection when he was picked whereas guys like Christian Ponder never were seen with stock that high and were obvious reaches.

Im saying the Rivers example proves there is a difference in the scenarios and Wentz definitely looks like the Rivers scenario more than the Ponder scenario.

Also.... Rivers was not getting more first round hype than Wentz has, pre senior bowl.
Nobody is arguing he would only be drafted on hype.

I really don't know who this argument is directed at, everybody here acknowledges he is a legitimate top prospect.
 

Simpleton

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I can't tell you what pundits thought of Rivers pre-Senior Bowl with any certainty but I very vividly remember that I was looking at him as a potential pick for us in the 1st prior to the Senior Bowl when we were picking around 20 or so. Then after the Senior Bowl we all knew that was up in smoke.

I think Wentz is similar, I already thought of him as a 1st (maybe not a sure fire top 10 pick but definitely at least a guy who will go in the 15-25ish range) after watching each of his games before he got hurt, and then certainly after I watched him in the FCS Championship. The Senior Bowl to me is just further confirmation and makes me even more confident in taking him at 4.

And guys like Ponder and Manuel were clear reaches to me at least, I remember being shocked when they went as high as they did.
 

Jiggyfly

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I can't tell you what pundits thought of Rivers pre-Senior Bowl with any certainty but I very vividly remember that I was looking at him as a potential pick for us in the 1st prior to the Senior Bowl when we were picking around 20 or so. Then after the Senior Bowl we all knew that was up in smoke.

I think Wentz is similar, I already thought of him as a 1st (maybe not a sure fire top 10 pick but definitely at least a guy who will go in the 15-25ish range) after watching each of his games before he got hurt, and then certainly after I watched him in the FCS Championship. The Senior Bowl to me is just further confirmation and makes me even more confident in taking him at 4.

And guys like Ponder and Manuel were clear reaches to me at least, I remember being shocked when they went as high as they did.
I remember Rivers as always being in the top 3 QB mix and all of those guys were considered 1st rounders.

At the least he was thought of as top of the 2nd type.
 

VA Cowboy

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I really don't think we're going to a take a QB at #4. With the 3-4 more years talk for Romo plus probably getting Manziel or RGIII, I think we'll end up passing on QB. I just hope we don't throw away our 2nd on Cook or worse.
 

boozeman

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I remember Rivers as always being in the top 3 QB mix and all of those guys were considered 1st rounders.

At the least he was thought of as top of the 2nd type.
Second round type. Until the Senior Bowl.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I really don't think we're going to a take a QB at #4. With the 3-4 more years talk for Romo plus probably getting Manziel or RGIII, I think we'll end up passing on QB. I just hope we don't throw away our 2nd on Cook or worse.
Stop being so negative. I have no doubt we are seriously considering Wentz. Now Goff or Lynch I jave no idea about.
 

VA Cowboy

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Stop being so negative. I have no doubt we are seriously considering Wentz. Now Goff or Lynch I jave no idea about.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/....nior-bowl-week

— It's no secret the Dallas Cowboys need to get younger at quarterback behind Tony Romo, and sources I talked to this week from a competing team don't expect owner Jerry Jones to pull the trigger on a passer with the No. 4 pick in the draft. Instead, look for Robert Griffin III or Johnny Manziel to be in Dallas next year.

--

I don't think Jerry was blowing smoke about thinking Romo has 3-4 years left. Get ready for it, we likely aren't taking a QB in the first.
 

Jiggyfly

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/....nior-bowl-week

— It's no secret the Dallas Cowboys need to get younger at quarterback behind Tony Romo, and sources I talked to this week from a competing team don't expect owner Jerry Jones to pull the trigger on a passer with the No. 4 pick in the draft. Instead, look for Robert Griffin III or Johnny Manziel to be in Dallas next year.

--

I don't think Jerry was blowing smoke about thinking Romo has 3-4 years left. Get ready for it, we likely aren't taking a QB in the first.
Man you are grasping at anything to be negative about, now it's unnamed sources from other teams saying what they think will happen. :lol
 

VA Cowboy

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Man you are grasping at anything to be negative about, now it's unnamed sources from other teams saying what they think will happen. :lol
I'm not grasping at anything, it's a very real possibility. Jerry has been married to Tony even giving him that absurd extension tying him to us til he's at least 37. Now there's talk he could play 3-4 years. And don't think when we sign Manziel or RGIII we only have longterm backup in mind. Jerry is delusional enough to actually think one of them could turn it around and be the guy, at least enough to think we are OK at QB for the next year or two, long enough pass on a QB in the first this year and instead opt for a player who can start immediately. JJ is always hung up on that. It's the reason given for about 15 years why we didn't draft a WR in the first all those years prior to Dez. Somehow they thought it took a WR a year or two to develop and didn't want to use a first on one.

Despite not winning squat in 20 years he's always in 'win now' mode. With Romo coming towards the end of his career I think it's more than plausible Jerry isn't going to want to use a top 5 pick on a QB who won't see the field for a year or two. And now others are saying it too. I'd put money on it.
 

boozeman

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Despite not winning squat in 20 years he's always in 'win now' mode. With Romo coming towards the end of his career I think it's more than plausible Jerry isn't going to want to use a top 5 pick on a QB who won't see the field for a year or two. And now others are saying it too. I'd put money on it.
I refuse to put money on it because it would crush my hopes. But I believe you are right.

We get fuckin' Griffin and no QB.

And Jalen fuckin' Ramsey at 4.

:sad
 
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